From bbe3mn at yahoo.com Fri May 1 07:30:08 2009 From: bbe3mn at yahoo.com (nara) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 07:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [MCN-L] Master students exhibition opening in Sweden! Message-ID: <100816.29688.qm@web50910.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Masked -Darth Vader, Zorro, Ziggy Stardust & You! Opening on May 19, 2009, the International Museum Studies Masters Program is presenting an exhibit about the different uses of masks and the transformation of faces at the Museum of World Culture in Gothenburg, Sweden. As a springboard we are using masks from the ethnographic collections of the Museum of World Culture, to dive into the larger world of the masks we all wear. Several of the objects shown have never previously been displayed to the public. The International Museum Studies Program at Gothenburg University is a renowned program with students coming from 18 countries within the global cultural sector. The program is within the Department of Museion, a faculty housed at the Museum of World Culture, which was recently awarded with the title ?Museum of the Year 2009?. In connection with the exhibition we are also arranging a variety of events for people of all ages, and with all interests. The opening event; ?Find the New Side of You?, will launch the exhibition. This event will be held at the Museum of World Culture on May 19, 2009, from 18:00- 20:00, an occasion of festive exploration to come as you are, or as who you want to be! ? Yours Sincerely, ? Marketing Team ? International Museum Studies, Gothenburg University Sweden? From TAMSEN_SCHWARTZMAN at exchange.fitnyc.edu Fri May 1 10:33:42 2009 From: TAMSEN_SCHWARTZMAN at exchange.fitnyc.edu (TAMSEN SCHWARTZMAN) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:33:42 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Master students exhibition opening in Sweden! In-Reply-To: <100816.29688.qm@web50910.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <100816.29688.qm@web50910.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I would love to blog about this!! Do you have any press photos? Tamsen Schwartzman Museum Media Manager The Museum at FIT, Room E116 Seventh Avenue at 27th Street New York, NY 10001 212~217~4547 ** 212~217~4561 fax www.fitnyc.edu/museum Visit our collections online at fashionmuseum.fitnyc.edu Closes June 16: Seduction (www.fitnyc.edu/seduction) Opens March 10: Muriel King: Artist of Fashion Opens June 16: Isabel Toledo: Fashion from the Inside Out ________________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of nara [bbe3mn at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 10:30 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv; MUSEUM-L at HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM; Canadian Museums List; members at mediaandtechnology.org; Museum Education List; ICOM Discussion List Subject: [MCN-L] Master students exhibition opening in Sweden! Masked -Darth Vader, Zorro, Ziggy Stardust & You! Opening on May 19, 2009, the International Museum Studies Masters Program is presenting an exhibit about the different uses of masks and the transformation of faces at the Museum of World Culture in Gothenburg, Sweden. As a springboard we are using masks from the ethnographic collections of the Museum of World Culture, to dive into the larger world of the masks we all wear. Several of the objects shown have never previously been displayed to the public. The International Museum Studies Program at Gothenburg University is a renowned program with students coming from 18 countries within the global cultural sector. The program is within the Department of Museion, a faculty housed at the Museum of World Culture, which was recently awarded with the title ?Museum of the Year 2009?. In connection with the exhibition we are also arranging a variety of events for people of all ages, and with all interests. The opening event; ?Find the New Side of You?, will launch the exhibition. This event will be held at the Museum of World Culture on May 19, 2009, from 18:00- 20:00, an occasion of festive exploration to come as you are, or as who you want to be! Yours Sincerely, Marketing Team International Museum Studies, Gothenburg University Sweden _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From probiz at cubarte.cult.cu Fri May 1 11:54:11 2009 From: probiz at cubarte.cult.cu (Abelardo Mena) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:54:11 -0500 Subject: [MCN-L] Inquiry about The International Museum Studies Program at Gothenburg University Message-ID: <41B26B1AAB154200BEA19952DF3F9715@COMPAQ> Dear colleagues, Hello from Havana Cuba. My name is Abelardo Mena, Art curator at The National Museum of Fine Arts, Havana Cuba, and like to know details about The International Museum Studies Program at Gothenburg University: program, admission policy, time, etc. Sincerely, regards Abelardo Mena MNBA Writer www.cuba-avantgarde.com From bbe3mn at yahoo.com Fri May 1 11:39:00 2009 From: bbe3mn at yahoo.com (nara) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [MCN-L] Master students exhibition opening in Sweden! Message-ID: <852842.31173.qm@web50901.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Tamsen Schwartzman, ? Thank you very much for interesting? the "Masked"exhibition. We? will be put it online very soon. ? Sincerely, ? Nara --- On Fri, 5/1/09, TAMSEN SCHWARTZMAN wrote: From: TAMSEN SCHWARTZMAN Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Master students exhibition opening in Sweden! To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 10:33 AM I would love to blog about this!! Do you have any press photos? Tamsen Schwartzman Museum Media Manager The Museum at FIT, Room E116 Seventh Avenue at 27th Street New York, NY 10001 212~217~4547? **? 212~217~4561 fax www.fitnyc.edu/museum Visit our collections online at fashionmuseum.fitnyc.edu Closes June 16: Seduction (www.fitnyc.edu/seduction) Opens March 10: Muriel King: Artist of Fashion Opens June 16: Isabel Toledo: Fashion from the Inside Out ________________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of nara [bbe3mn at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 10:30 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv; MUSEUM-L at HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM; Canadian Museums List; members at mediaandtechnology.org; Museum Education List; ICOM Discussion List Subject: [MCN-L] Master students exhibition opening in Sweden! Masked -Darth Vader, Zorro, Ziggy Stardust & You! Opening on May 19, 2009, the International Museum Studies Masters Program is presenting an exhibit about the different uses of masks and the transformation of faces at the Museum of World Culture in Gothenburg, Sweden. As a springboard we are using masks from the ethnographic collections of the Museum of World Culture, to dive into the larger world of the masks we all wear. Several of the objects shown have never previously been displayed to the public. The International Museum Studies Program at Gothenburg University is a renowned program with students coming from 18 countries within the global cultural sector. The program is within the Department of Museion, a faculty housed at the Museum of World Culture, which was recently awarded with the title ?Museum of the Year 2009?. In connection with the exhibition we are also arranging a variety of events for people of all ages, and with all interests. The opening event; ?Find the New Side of You?, will launch the exhibition. This event will be held at the Museum of World Culture on May 19, 2009, from 18:00- 20:00, an occasion of festive exploration to come as you are, or as who you want to be! Yours Sincerely, Marketing Team International Museum Studies, Gothenburg University Sweden _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From bbe3mn at yahoo.com Fri May 1 11:49:43 2009 From: bbe3mn at yahoo.com (bbe3mn at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:49:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [MCN-L] Inquiry about The International Museum Studies Program at Gothenburg University Message-ID: <481435.962.qm@web50906.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Abelardo, ? Thank you for interesting the IMS at Gothenburg University.? Enjoy?by??http://www.museion.gu.se/english ? Best Nara, --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Abelardo Mena wrote: From: Abelardo Mena Subject: [MCN-L] Inquiry about The International Museum Studies Program at Gothenburg University To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 11:54 AM Dear colleagues, Hello from Havana Cuba. My name is Abelardo Mena, Art curator at The National Museum of Fine Arts, Havana Cuba, and like to know details about The International Museum Studies Program at Gothenburg University: program, admission policy, time, etc. Sincerely, regards Abelardo Mena MNBA Writer www.cuba-avantgarde.com _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From Images at vanartgallery.bc.ca Fri May 1 11:57:35 2009 From: Images at vanartgallery.bc.ca (Images) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:57:35 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes Message-ID: I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size do you use for online purposes? Many thanks! Danielle From MParadis at Gallery.ca Fri May 1 12:06:06 2009 From: MParadis at Gallery.ca (MParadis at Gallery.ca) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 15:06:06 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7EB3F7DBBD8F794C9976C9619F86D55808F5988A28@MERCURY.NGC.MBAC> Hi Danielle, Our database is MimsyXG and we supply it a 180x180 tombstone image and a 1024x768 full screen view for research. We keep 4000x4000 pixel images in our photo archive but do not mount these to the network to avoid congestion or accidental distribution to external clients without copyright clearance in place first. Thanks, Mark Paradis Chief, Multimedia Services-Chef de services multim?dia National Gallery of Canada, Mus?e des beaux-arts du Canada 380 Sussex Drive,Ottawa, Ontario K1N 9N4 ph. 613-990-1788, fx. 613-991-2680 cell 613-797-0558 -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Images Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:58 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size do you use for online purposes? Many thanks! Danielle _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From marco.deniet at den.nl Fri May 1 13:09:07 2009 From: marco.deniet at den.nl (Marco de Niet) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 22:09:07 +0200 Subject: [MCN-L] talking of IT-strategies... Message-ID: <66E4984ED123AA4B85031AB80E75E94B10EE4A@server01.den.nl> Dear all Please allow me to draw your attention to a new internatonal conference on digital strategies for heritage, DISH2009. The call for proposals is below. Kind regards Marco de Niet ============= What is DISH2009? Digital Strategies for Heritage (DISH) is a new bi-annual international conference on digital heritage and the opportunities it offers to cultural organisations. Triggered by changes in society, heritage organisations face many challenges and need to make strategic decisions about their services. DISH2009 aims at sharing knowledge about and experiences with digital strategies. What roles do cultural heritage institutions have in a networked society? What is the impact of digitisation on these organisations? Why are certain digital services more successful than others? Which business models are suited to the cultural heritage sector? Why would archives, museums and libraries co-operate? These are some of the questions that will be addressed in keynotes, presentations, debates and workshops. Who benefits from DISH2009? The conference will be for all staff of cultural heritage institutions that are responsible for policy issues and/or management of digital collections and services. The conference will enable participants to learn more about strategic decisions on all aspects of digital heritage services. How can you contribute? The Programme Committee seeks contributions from professionals in archives, museums, libraries and other heritage institutions and from researchers or innovators outside the heritage field. The contribution can be a paper presentation (max. 25 minutes) or a workshop (either 2 hours or half day). The paper or workshop should address one of the following main conference topics: ? Strategies for innovation: ? Digital heritage in mash-ups ? Enhanced interoperability ? Access to cultural heritage through visualisation (3d, gaming etc.) ? From secured playgrounds into the open web ? Open everything (standards, source, ID etc.) ? Services and tools: always in a beta stage? ? Strategies for collaboration ? Opportunities for on line collaboration ? The value of interdisciplinary co-operation (culture, science and business) ? The relevance of national and regional portals ? User involvement ? The role of the creative industries ? Strategies for the unwired future ? Heritage on mobile devices ? Culture on the map / Geoweb ? Locative media ? Interfacing for crossmedia ? Business strategies ? New roles versus old roles ? Understanding use patterns ? Changing perspectives on collections ? Hybrid business models ? Achieving sustainability and permanent access ? From crowd sourcing to crowd funding ? Cost reduction through shared services ? Restrictions and opportunities through IPR ? Management strategies ? Creating favorable conditions for innovation ? The impact of the digital front office on the back office ? Managing your digital assets ? Measuring your digital collections ? Investing in staff competencies If you would like to contribute to the conference, please submit a proposal, which consists of an abstract (max. 400 words in English) and a short bio, before 30 May 2009. We welcome any contributions that are based on research or experience and that "look beyond the hypes". The abstract should address how heritage institutions have responded or should respond to changes triggered by ICT. Further instructions are available on the online Conference Proposal Submission Form at www.dish2009.nl. Who is organising DISH2009? DISH2009 builds on a series of successful national conferences on digital heritage in the Netherlands (2004-2008) and is organised in the spirit of the ICHIM conferences (1991-2007). The main organisers of the conference are the Netherlands Institute for Heritage and the DEN foundation. The Programme Committee consists of representatives from Europeana, the Association of European Research Libraries LIBER, the Flemish interface centre for cultural heritage FARO, Virtueel Platform (Netherlands Sector Institute for e-culture) and the EU-project PrestoPrime. A group of experts across the globe advices the Programme Committee. See www.dish2009.nl for more information. Questions? Please contact: Marco de Niet Director The DEN Foundation P.O. Box 90407 2509 LK The Hague The Netherlands +31 70 3140 343 marco.deniet[at]den.nl From akeshet at imj.org.il Mon May 4 02:18:26 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 12:18:26 +0300 Subject: [MCN-L] IP SIG: Creative Commons study on commercial / noncommercial use Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B443D1F@mailsrv.imj.org.il> One part the study is already available; much more will be available later. http://mirrors.creativecommons.org/nc-study/NC_Use_Study_Interim_Report_20090501.pdf "We'd like people to know the current poll is still open through May 5, and would like to see more response. " Fill out the questionnaire at: http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/14337 Amalyah Keshet Chair, MCN IP SIG From akeshet at imj.org.il Mon May 4 23:03:12 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 09:03:12 +0300 Subject: [MCN-L] IP SIG: Library Association Comments on Google Book Search Settlement Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B443D27@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Forwarded from another list: ________________________________ From: Jonathan Band Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 10:29 PM Subject: Library Association Comments on Google Book Search Settlement Just to keep the conversation alive, attached is the press release on the filing of comments by the American Library Association, the Association of College and Research Libraries, and the Association of Research Libraries on the proposed settlement. The comments can be found on the ALA and ARL websites. ________________________________ Library associations ask judge to assert vigorous oversight of proposed Google Book Search Settlement WASHINGTON, DC - The American Library Association (ALA), the Association of College and Research Libraries (ACRL) and the Association of Research Libraries (ARL) today filed comments with the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York for the judge to consider in his ruling on the proposed Google Book Search Settlement. The associations asked the judge to exercise vigorous oversight of the interpretation and implementation of the settlement to ensure the broadest possible benefit from the services the settlement enables. Representing over 139,000 libraries and 350,000 librarians, the associations filed the brief as members of the plaintiff class because they are both authors and publishers of books. The associations asserted that although the settlement has the potential to provide public access to millions of books, many of the features of the settlement, including the absence of competition for the new services, could compromise fundamental library values including equity of access to information, patron privacy and intellectual freedom. The court can mitigate these possible negative effects by regulating the conduct of Google and the Book Rights Registry the settlement establishes. "While this settlement agreement could provide unprecedented access to a digital library of millions of books, we are concerned that the cost of an institutional subscription may skyrocket, as academic journal subscriptions have over the past two decades," Erika Linke, president of ACRL, said. Under the settlement, Google, the Association of American Publishers and the Authors Guild resolved their legal dispute over the scanning of millions of books provided by research libraries. The library associations are not asking the judge to reject the settlement. Instead, they are requesting the judge to carefully monitor the parties' behavior once the settlement takes effect. Jim Rettig, president of ALA, said the proposed settlement, "offers no assurances that the privacy of what the public accessed will be protected, which is in stark contrast to the long-standing patron privacy rights libraries champion on behalf of the public." Although the filing deadline for comments to the judge was recently extended by four months, the associations moved forward with filing by the original deadline to help inform the public as it considers this important and complex matter. "The filing before the court by the library associations demonstrates that the associations will be vigilant in highlighting the interests of the public in this settlement. We have asked the court to exercise vigorous oversight to ensure that the powerful groups that control content do not leave individual researchers, libraries, other cultural organizations and the public without an effective voice," Tom Leonard, president of ARL, said. http://www.arl.org/pp/ppcopyright/google/ From RealW at CarnegieMuseums.Org Tue May 5 05:50:45 2009 From: RealW at CarnegieMuseums.Org (Real, Will) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 08:50:45 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes References: Message-ID: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB087823C8@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then choose which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px. When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px. In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. Zoomify, jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version from the collections database. Will Real Carnegie Museum of Art ________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size do you use for online purposes? Many thanks! Danielle _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu ) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From matt.morgan at metmuseum.org Tue May 5 06:57:12 2009 From: matt.morgan at metmuseum.org (Morgan, Matt) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 09:57:12 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes In-Reply-To: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB087823C8@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> Message-ID: Will, why wait for zoom before providing the large images? I think there are a lot of good arguments for very big images online now: 1) modern browsers handle resizing well 2) scrolling (when an image is too big for the window) is at least as easy for users as zooming, and shows them as much of the picture as will fit in the window (rather than arbitrarily limiting to a zoom pane) 3) connections are getting faster 4) and anyway, images are our "franchise" so if we're going to test users' bandwidth limits, this is the place to do it. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 8:50 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then choose which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px. When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px. In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. Zoomify, jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version from the collections database. Will Real Carnegie Museum of Art ________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size do you use for online purposes? Many thanks! Danielle _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu ) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From valasec at fastmail.fm Tue May 5 07:08:11 2009 From: valasec at fastmail.fm (VALA Secretariat) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 00:08:11 +1000 Subject: [MCN-L] VALA2010 Conference - Keynote Speaker Announcement and Abstract Submission Reminder Message-ID: <1241532491.8363.1313880227@webmail.messagingengine.com> ***Apologies for cross-postings*** VALA2010: Connections, Content, Conversations 9-11 February 2010 Melbourne Convention and Exhibition Centre -----Please remember to pass this email on to your colleagues!---- Dear Colleague, VALA is pleased to announce that Lee Rainie, who is the Director of the Pew Internet & American Life Project, a non-profit, non?partisan "fact tank" that studies the social impact of the internet, will be one of the keynote speakers for the VALA2010 Conference. (http://www.pewinternet.org/Experts/Lee-Rainie.aspx). He is also co-authoring a book for MIT Press about the social impact of technology with sociologist Barry Wellman that will be published in 2010. The working title is "Connected Lives: The New Social Network Operating System". Lee recently gave the opening keynote address at the US Computers in Libraries 2009 conference. As well as the six international keynote speakers, the Conference will have more than 40 other papers, from Australia and around the world, for which abstracts are currently being submitted. As you may be aware, the deadline for submission of abstracts for VALA2010 has been extended by request to close of business on Wednesday, 13 May 2009 (next week!), so there is still time to add your abstract to those already received. We are looking forward to a vibrant mix of papers from professionals from across the galleries, libraries, archives and museums sectors. Check out the details of the Call for Papers and submit your abstract online by 13 May 2009. As you will see, VALA is looking for papers on a wide range of subjects, so this could be your opportunity to present your latest research or experience to the delegates at VALA2010. Or if you know of other people who are doing work that may be of interest, direct them to the Call for Papers too. And there's a bonus: there is one discounted registration available per paper accepted for presentation at the Conference. Remember that VALA papers for publication are due to be submitted before the end of September in order to begin the peer-review process, during which you have the opportunity to update the paper as events and technologies unfold. And at the conference you are asked to talk to your paper, which means you can be up to the minute with the latest in your field. So, go to http://www.vala.org.au/conf2010.htm and submit online now! With the theme of Connections, Content, Conversations, VALA2010 will take place at the new Melbourne Convention and Exhibition Centre (on the other side of the river) from Tuesday 9 February to Thursday 11 February 2010. Note that we have again left Monday and Friday for associated events, meetings or workshops - contact the VALA Conference Office at info at wsm.com.au if you are interested in holding a workshop or associated event. The Main Announcement and Registration Brochure will be available in August 2009 - contact the VALA Conference Office at info at wsm.com.au if you would like to be added to the list to receive a copy. Remember, you and your organisation will be able to get best value for money by being full members of VALA and paying for your registrations by 30 November 2009, so make your budget plans for the rest of this year accordingly! And if you know a vendor you would like to see at the trade exhibition, the sponsorship and exhibition proposal is also now available - follow the links from the VALA2010 Home page or contact our Conference Office at info at wsm.com.au for a copy. Alyson Kosina VALA Executive Officer VALA - Libraries, Technology and the Future Inc. Reg No A0011933K ABN 75 344 574 577 P.O. Box 509 Mooroolbark VIC 3138 Phone: (03) 9725 2725 Fax: (03) 8625 0079 Email: vala at vala.org.au Reply Reply to all Forward Delete Report spam Do or Delete Report spam to and Do ? Back to Sent Items Delete and: ? Previous Next ? From RealW at CarnegieMuseums.Org Tue May 5 07:39:24 2009 From: RealW at CarnegieMuseums.Org (Real, Will) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 10:39:24 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes In-Reply-To: References: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB087823C8@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> Message-ID: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B0E@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> Hi Matt, The reason is simple: the museum does not want people to be able to use the large images to produce commercially viable prints. There was a thread on this list awhile back about that issue, and it seems our museum is not alone in taking this approach. We seem to think that there is some money to be made off the images and if anyone is going to make it, it should be us. With Zoomify or jpeg2000 we can offer up the full size image without loading it all at once. If someone really wants to they will still be able to download all of the high-res tiles and reassemble them, but it would be a lot more difficult. Another reason is that some images are published on the web with permission from the copyright owners. The permission form specifies the online image size. We'd have to maintain at least two different maximum file sizes online depending on copyright. Not impossible of course, just kind of a pain! Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:57 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Will, why wait for zoom before providing the large images? I think there are a lot of good arguments for very big images online now: 1) modern browsers handle resizing well 2) scrolling (when an image is too big for the window) is at least as easy for users as zooming, and shows them as much of the picture as will fit in the window (rather than arbitrarily limiting to a zoom pane) 3) connections are getting faster 4) and anyway, images are our "franchise" so if we're going to test users' bandwidth limits, this is the place to do it. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 8:50 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then choose which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px. When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px. In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. Zoomify, jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version from the collections database. Will Real Carnegie Museum of Art ________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size do you use for online purposes? Many thanks! Danielle _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu ) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From matt.morgan at metmuseum.org Tue May 5 07:48:07 2009 From: matt.morgan at metmuseum.org (Morgan, Matt) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 10:48:07 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes In-Reply-To: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B0E@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> Message-ID: I'm aware of the discussion, but what's the limit before you hit "commercially viable"? Surely more than 500px. On 5/5/09 10:39 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Hi Matt, The reason is simple: the museum does not want people to be able to use the large images to produce commercially viable prints. There was a thread on this list awhile back about that issue, and it seems our museum is not alone in taking this approach. We seem to think that there is some money to be made off the images and if anyone is going to make it, it should be us. With Zoomify or jpeg2000 we can offer up the full size image without loading it all at once. If someone really wants to they will still be able to download all of the high-res tiles and reassemble them, but it would be a lot more difficult. Another reason is that some images are published on the web with permission from the copyright owners. The permission form specifies the online image size. We'd have to maintain at least two different maximum file sizes online depending on copyright. Not impossible of course, just kind of a pain! Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:57 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Will, why wait for zoom before providing the large images? I think there are a lot of good arguments for very big images online now: 1) modern browsers handle resizing well 2) scrolling (when an image is too big for the window) is at least as easy for users as zooming, and shows them as much of the picture as will fit in the window (rather than arbitrarily limiting to a zoom pane) 3) connections are getting faster 4) and anyway, images are our "franchise" so if we're going to test users' bandwidth limits, this is the place to do it. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 8:50 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then choose which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px. When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px. In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. Zoomify, jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version from the collections database. Will Real Carnegie Museum of Art ________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size do you use for online purposes? Many thanks! Danielle _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu ) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From RealW at CarnegieMuseums.Org Tue May 5 08:10:06 2009 From: RealW at CarnegieMuseums.Org (Real, Will) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 11:10:06 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes In-Reply-To: References: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B0E@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> Message-ID: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B92@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> Matt, you are probably right, but 500 was what other people here (e.g. Publications staff) were comfortable with. A postcard-sized inkjet print we made from a 600 pixel image was surprisingly good, good enough to scare people. I hope someday we can move beyond this stalemate and provide more useful images to the public, with or without tools such as Zoomify. Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:48 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm aware of the discussion, but what's the limit before you hit "commercially viable"? Surely more than 500px. On 5/5/09 10:39 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Hi Matt, The reason is simple: the museum does not want people to be able to use the large images to produce commercially viable prints. There was a thread on this list awhile back about that issue, and it seems our museum is not alone in taking this approach. We seem to think that there is some money to be made off the images and if anyone is going to make it, it should be us. With Zoomify or jpeg2000 we can offer up the full size image without loading it all at once. If someone really wants to they will still be able to download all of the high-res tiles and reassemble them, but it would be a lot more difficult. Another reason is that some images are published on the web with permission from the copyright owners. The permission form specifies the online image size. We'd have to maintain at least two different maximum file sizes online depending on copyright. Not impossible of course, just kind of a pain! Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:57 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Will, why wait for zoom before providing the large images? I think there are a lot of good arguments for very big images online now: 1) modern browsers handle resizing well 2) scrolling (when an image is too big for the window) is at least as easy for users as zooming, and shows them as much of the picture as will fit in the window (rather than arbitrarily limiting to a zoom pane) 3) connections are getting faster 4) and anyway, images are our "franchise" so if we're going to test users' bandwidth limits, this is the place to do it. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 8:50 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then choose which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px. When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px. In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. Zoomify, jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version from the collections database. Will Real Carnegie Museum of Art ________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size do you use for online purposes? Many thanks! Danielle _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu ) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From khamma at me.com Tue May 5 08:26:14 2009 From: khamma at me.com (Kenneth Hamma) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 08:26:14 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes In-Reply-To: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B92@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> References: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B0E@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B92@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> Message-ID: <4BFD3C73-937F-4D9D-94DA-4486DB706C03@me.com> Will, Moving beyond this is happening in lots of places already. Look, for example, at the image availability for prints in the British Museum: e.g., http://tinyurl.com/cu9the According to staff at the British Museum, this has proven very popular, way beyond the point that they could have any hope of enforcing the use limitations - if they had ever intended to do so for images of public domain works. ken Kenneth Hamma +1 310 270 8008 khamma at me.com 368 Patel Place Palm Springs CA 92264 On May 5, 2009, at 8:10 AM, Real, Will wrote: > Matt, you are probably right, but 500 was what other people here (e.g. > Publications staff) were comfortable with. A postcard-sized inkjet > print > we made from a 600 pixel image was surprisingly good, good enough to > scare people. I hope someday we can move beyond this stalemate and > provide more useful images to the public, with or without tools such > as > Zoomify. > > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf > Of > Morgan, Matt > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:48 AM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes > > I'm aware of the discussion, but what's the limit before you hit > "commercially viable"? Surely more than 500px. > > On 5/5/09 10:39 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: > > Hi Matt, > > The reason is simple: the museum does not want people to be able to > use > the large images to produce commercially viable prints. There was a > thread on this list awhile back about that issue, and it seems our > museum is not alone in taking this approach. We seem to think that > there > is some money to be made off the images and if anyone is going to make > it, it should be us. > > With Zoomify or jpeg2000 we can offer up the full size image without > loading it all at once. If someone really wants to they will still be > able to download all of the high-res tiles and reassemble them, but it > would be a lot more difficult. > > Another reason is that some images are published on the web with > permission from the copyright owners. The permission form specifies > the > online image size. We'd have to maintain at least two different > maximum > file sizes online depending on copyright. Not impossible of course, > just > kind of a pain! > > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf > Of > Morgan, Matt > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:57 AM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes > > Will, why wait for zoom before providing the large images? I think > there > are a lot of good arguments for very big images online now: > > 1) modern browsers handle resizing well > 2) scrolling (when an image is too big for the window) is at least as > easy for users as zooming, and shows them as much of the picture as > will > fit in the window (rather than arbitrarily limiting to a zoom pane) > 3) connections are getting faster > 4) and anyway, images are our "franchise" so if we're going to test > users' bandwidth limits, this is the place to do it. > > Thanks, > Matt > > > On 5/5/09 8:50 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: > > We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database > creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then > choose > which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are > about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of > the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px. > > When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are > created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px. > > In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. > Zoomify, > jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version > from > the collections database. > > Will Real > Carnegie Museum of Art > > ________________________________ > > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images > Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57 > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes > > > > I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their > internal > databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What > size > do you use for online purposes? > > Many thanks! > Danielle > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu > > ww.mcn.edu/> ) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From matt.morgan at metmuseum.org Tue May 5 08:43:35 2009 From: matt.morgan at metmuseum.org (Morgan, Matt) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 11:43:35 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes In-Reply-To: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B92@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> Message-ID: I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, but don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining like crazy here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one of my bugbears a little bit. We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a significant, commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object images. It just isn't done--there is no business model in stealing images. Getting images of more than 1000px (from Flickr, for example) of our objects is a trivial matter, so it cannot be that increasing image sizes on our own websites will make this problem materialize. I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all face. I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or blowing them up until they're fuzzy. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 11:10 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Matt, you are probably right, but 500 was what other people here (e.g. Publications staff) were comfortable with. A postcard-sized inkjet print we made from a 600 pixel image was surprisingly good, good enough to scare people. I hope someday we can move beyond this stalemate and provide more useful images to the public, with or without tools such as Zoomify. Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:48 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm aware of the discussion, but what's the limit before you hit "commercially viable"? Surely more than 500px. On 5/5/09 10:39 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Hi Matt, The reason is simple: the museum does not want people to be able to use the large images to produce commercially viable prints. There was a thread on this list awhile back about that issue, and it seems our museum is not alone in taking this approach. We seem to think that there is some money to be made off the images and if anyone is going to make it, it should be us. With Zoomify or jpeg2000 we can offer up the full size image without loading it all at once. If someone really wants to they will still be able to download all of the high-res tiles and reassemble them, but it would be a lot more difficult. Another reason is that some images are published on the web with permission from the copyright owners. The permission form specifies the online image size. We'd have to maintain at least two different maximum file sizes online depending on copyright. Not impossible of course, just kind of a pain! Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:57 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Will, why wait for zoom before providing the large images? I think there are a lot of good arguments for very big images online now: 1) modern browsers handle resizing well 2) scrolling (when an image is too big for the window) is at least as easy for users as zooming, and shows them as much of the picture as will fit in the window (rather than arbitrarily limiting to a zoom pane) 3) connections are getting faster 4) and anyway, images are our "franchise" so if we're going to test users' bandwidth limits, this is the place to do it. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 8:50 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then choose which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px. When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px. In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. Zoomify, jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version from the collections database. Will Real Carnegie Museum of Art ________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size do you use for online purposes? Many thanks! Danielle _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu ) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From RealW at CarnegieMuseums.Org Tue May 5 08:54:41 2009 From: RealW at CarnegieMuseums.Org (Real, Will) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 11:54:41 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes In-Reply-To: References: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B92@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> Message-ID: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752C6D@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> Hi Matt, Ken, et al., Matt said "there is no business model in stealing images" which may well be true. At the same time, I know my administration would ask me what my business plan would be for giving images away (in the manner of the British Library link posted by Ken). And they would not mean "we should do it because we are a public service institution". Anecdotally the case has been stated for the business sense of giving stuff away, and certainly there are high-profile examples in other media (Radiohead, Paolo Coelho) but has anyone in the museum industry studied this formally with regard to images? If so, I am ready to try. Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, but don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining like crazy here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one of my bugbears a little bit. We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a significant, commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object images. It just isn't done--there is no business model in stealing images. Getting images of more than 1000px (from Flickr, for example) of our objects is a trivial matter, so it cannot be that increasing image sizes on our own websites will make this problem materialize. I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all face. I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or blowing them up until they're fuzzy. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 11:10 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Matt, you are probably right, but 500 was what other people here (e.g. Publications staff) were comfortable with. A postcard-sized inkjet print we made from a 600 pixel image was surprisingly good, good enough to scare people. I hope someday we can move beyond this stalemate and provide more useful images to the public, with or without tools such as Zoomify. Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:48 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm aware of the discussion, but what's the limit before you hit "commercially viable"? Surely more than 500px. On 5/5/09 10:39 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Hi Matt, The reason is simple: the museum does not want people to be able to use the large images to produce commercially viable prints. There was a thread on this list awhile back about that issue, and it seems our museum is not alone in taking this approach. We seem to think that there is some money to be made off the images and if anyone is going to make it, it should be us. With Zoomify or jpeg2000 we can offer up the full size image without loading it all at once. If someone really wants to they will still be able to download all of the high-res tiles and reassemble them, but it would be a lot more difficult. Another reason is that some images are published on the web with permission from the copyright owners. The permission form specifies the online image size. We'd have to maintain at least two different maximum file sizes online depending on copyright. Not impossible of course, just kind of a pain! Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:57 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Will, why wait for zoom before providing the large images? I think there are a lot of good arguments for very big images online now: 1) modern browsers handle resizing well 2) scrolling (when an image is too big for the window) is at least as easy for users as zooming, and shows them as much of the picture as will fit in the window (rather than arbitrarily limiting to a zoom pane) 3) connections are getting faster 4) and anyway, images are our "franchise" so if we're going to test users' bandwidth limits, this is the place to do it. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 8:50 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then choose which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px. When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px. In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. Zoomify, jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version from the collections database. Will Real Carnegie Museum of Art ________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size do you use for online purposes? Many thanks! Danielle _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu ) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From ejohnson at monticello.org Tue May 5 08:55:08 2009 From: ejohnson at monticello.org (Eric Johnson) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 11:55:08 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes In-Reply-To: References: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B92@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> Message-ID: Matt raises an interesting point: has anybody ever had any problems with people "lifting" high-quality images of your collection without seeking permission and making money with them (posters, t-shirts, etc.)? The only thing I can think of off-hand is more in the vein of taking print-quality images and using them in books without permission. But then again, I'm not familiar with any example of that actually happening; it's just a worry passed down from higher-ups. But I'm curious about any specific examples of such unauthorized reproduction that anybody might have. --E. Eric D. M. Johnson Web Services Librarian Jefferson Library, Monticello P.O. Box 316 Charlottesville, VA 22902 Phone: (434) 984-7540 | Fax: (434) 984-7546 http://www.monticello.org/library/ ejohnson at monticello.org -----Original Message----- From: Morgan, Matt [mailto:matt.morgan at metmuseum.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, but don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining like crazy here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one of my bugbears a little bit. We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a significant, commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object images. It just isn't done--there is no business model in stealing images. Getting images of more than 1000px (from Flickr, for example) of our objects is a trivial matter, so it cannot be that increasing image sizes on our own websites will make this problem materialize. I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all face. I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or blowing them up until they're fuzzy. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 11:10 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Matt, you are probably right, but 500 was what other people here (e.g. Publications staff) were comfortable with. A postcard-sized inkjet print we made from a 600 pixel image was surprisingly good, good enough to scare people. I hope someday we can move beyond this stalemate and provide more useful images to the public, with or without tools such as Zoomify. Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:48 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm aware of the discussion, but what's the limit before you hit "commercially viable"? Surely more than 500px. On 5/5/09 10:39 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Hi Matt, The reason is simple: the museum does not want people to be able to use the large images to produce commercially viable prints. There was a thread on this list awhile back about that issue, and it seems our museum is not alone in taking this approach. We seem to think that there is some money to be made off the images and if anyone is going to make it, it should be us. With Zoomify or jpeg2000 we can offer up the full size image without loading it all at once. If someone really wants to they will still be able to download all of the high-res tiles and reassemble them, but it would be a lot more difficult. Another reason is that some images are published on the web with permission from the copyright owners. The permission form specifies the online image size. We'd have to maintain at least two different maximum file sizes online depending on copyright. Not impossible of course, just kind of a pain! Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:57 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Will, why wait for zoom before providing the large images? I think there are a lot of good arguments for very big images online now: 1) modern browsers handle resizing well 2) scrolling (when an image is too big for the window) is at least as easy for users as zooming, and shows them as much of the picture as will fit in the window (rather than arbitrarily limiting to a zoom pane) 3) connections are getting faster 4) and anyway, images are our "franchise" so if we're going to test users' bandwidth limits, this is the place to do it. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 8:50 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then choose which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px. When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px. In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. Zoomify, jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version from the collections database. Will Real Carnegie Museum of Art ________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size do you use for online purposes? Many thanks! Danielle _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu ) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From dennis.moser at gmail.com Tue May 5 09:08:38 2009 From: dennis.moser at gmail.com (Dennis Moser) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 10:08:38 -0600 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes In-Reply-To: References: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B92@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> Message-ID: <364752ec0905050908ia5b056dxa9839015cd4eaeb1@mail.gmail.com> Hello all, The reason we have legal counsel is to have the trained pit-bulls to go after people who use our assets without appropriate permissions. As for Will Real's administrators asking him about his business plan for giving things away, I would point them in the direction of this website sponsored by JISC and the University of Glasgow: http://www.gla.ac.uk/espida/index.shtml ... as it provides all the ammunition you would want for developing just such business model. Let's face it, so long as there is "property", there will be "theft". (I'm facing these same issues with an open repository that will contain both image and text ... ) Best, Dennis ~~ "Crazy" is a term of art: "Insane" is a term of Law. Remember that, and you will save yourself a lot of trouble. ~ Hunter S. Thompson On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 09:55, Eric Johnson wrote: > Matt raises an interesting point: has anybody ever had any problems with > people "lifting" high-quality images of your collection without seeking > permission and making money with them (posters, t-shirts, etc.)? > > The only thing I can think of off-hand is more in the vein of taking > print-quality images and using them in books without permission. But > then again, I'm not familiar with any example of that actually > happening; it's just a worry passed down from higher-ups. > > But I'm curious about any specific examples of such unauthorized > reproduction that anybody might have. > > --E. > > Eric D. M. Johnson > Web Services Librarian > Jefferson Library, Monticello > P.O. Box 316 > Charlottesville, VA 22902 > Phone: (434) 984-7540 | Fax: (434) 984-7546 > http://www.monticello.org/library/ > ejohnson at monticello.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Morgan, Matt [mailto:matt.morgan at metmuseum.org] > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes > > I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, but > don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining like crazy > here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one of my > bugbears a little bit. > > We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a significant, > commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object images. It just isn't > done--there is no business model in stealing images. Getting images of > more than 1000px (from Flickr, for example) of our objects is a trivial > matter, so it cannot be that increasing image sizes on our own websites > will make this problem materialize. > > I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all face. > I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start > letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or blowing > them up until they're fuzzy. > > Thanks, > Matt > > > On 5/5/09 11:10 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: > > Matt, you are probably right, but 500 was what other people here (e.g. > Publications staff) were comfortable with. A postcard-sized inkjet print > we made from a 600 pixel image was surprisingly good, good enough to > scare people. I hope someday we can move beyond this stalemate and > provide more useful images to the public, with or without tools such as > Zoomify. > > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of > Morgan, Matt > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:48 AM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes > > I'm aware of the discussion, but what's the limit before you hit > "commercially viable"? Surely more than 500px. > > On 5/5/09 10:39 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: > > Hi Matt, > > The reason is simple: the museum does not want people to be able to use > the large images to produce commercially viable prints. There was a > thread on this list awhile back about that issue, and it seems our > museum is not alone in taking this approach. We seem to think that there > is some money to be made off the images and if anyone is going to make > it, it should be us. > > With Zoomify or jpeg2000 we can offer up the full size image without > loading it all at once. If someone really wants to they will still be > able to download all of the high-res tiles and reassemble them, but it > would be a lot more difficult. > > Another reason is that some images are published on the web with > permission from the copyright owners. The permission form specifies the > online image size. We'd have to maintain at least two different maximum > file sizes online depending on copyright. Not impossible of course, just > kind of a pain! > > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of > Morgan, Matt > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:57 AM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes > > Will, why wait for zoom before providing the large images? I think there > are a lot of good arguments for very big images online now: > > 1) modern browsers handle resizing well > 2) scrolling (when an image is too big for the window) is at least as > easy for users as zooming, and shows them as much of the picture as will > fit in the window (rather than arbitrarily limiting to a zoom pane) > 3) connections are getting faster > 4) and anyway, images are our "franchise" so if we're going to test > users' bandwidth limits, this is the place to do it. > > Thanks, > Matt > > > On 5/5/09 8:50 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: > > We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database > creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then choose > which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are > about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of > the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px. > > When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are > created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px. > > In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. Zoomify, > jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version from > the collections database. > > Will Real > Carnegie Museum of Art > > ________________________________ > > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images > Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57 > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes > > > > I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal > databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size > do you use for online purposes? > > Many thanks! > Danielle > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu > ww.mcn.edu/> ww.mcn.edu/> ) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer > Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > From ejohnson at monticello.org Tue May 5 09:12:48 2009 From: ejohnson at monticello.org (Eric Johnson) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 12:12:48 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes In-Reply-To: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752C6D@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> References: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B92@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752C6D@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> Message-ID: Hi, Will-- In fact, I just posed my last question because I'm just starting to pull together whatever I can to create a kind of "white paper" about the cost/benefits of giving away information for free in a museum setting (e.g. high quality images, full text of publications, etc.). So I, too, would be very interested in any other studies that have been done! I know author Corey Doctorow has famously made the case that he sells *more* books because he gives away the full text of those books for free under a Creative Commons License. And there are other cases out there, too, of mission-driven reasons for giving away high quality content--Michael Edson, for instance, made an argument along these lines at MCN 2008 with regard to the Smithsonian Commons. Some of these examples aim to provide institutional remuneration through other channels (e.g. licensing), and some simply show the fulfillment of that higher mission. In the meantime, I'm looking forward to Chris Anderson's forthcoming book, _Free: The Future of a Radical Price_ to see what he's got to say about all this. In any case, I don't claim specific expertise but I'm certainly happy to share the results of whatever it is I come up with. In the meantime, I'd definitely be interested in hearing about other cases being made in museums, too. --E. Eric D. M. Johnson Web Services Librarian Jefferson Library, Monticello P.O. Box 316 Charlottesville, VA 22902 Phone: (434) 984-7540 | Fax: (434) 984-7546 http://www.monticello.org/library/ ejohnson at monticello.org -----Original Message----- From: Real, Will [mailto:RealW at CarnegieMuseums.Org] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:55 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Hi Matt, Ken, et al., Matt said "there is no business model in stealing images" which may well be true. At the same time, I know my administration would ask me what my business plan would be for giving images away (in the manner of the British Library link posted by Ken). And they would not mean "we should do it because we are a public service institution". Anecdotally the case has been stated for the business sense of giving stuff away, and certainly there are high-profile examples in other media (Radiohead, Paolo Coelho) but has anyone in the museum industry studied this formally with regard to images? If so, I am ready to try. Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, but don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining like crazy here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one of my bugbears a little bit. We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a significant, commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object images. It just isn't done--there is no business model in stealing images. Getting images of more than 1000px (from Flickr, for example) of our objects is a trivial matter, so it cannot be that increasing image sizes on our own websites will make this problem materialize. I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all face. I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or blowing them up until they're fuzzy. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 11:10 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Matt, you are probably right, but 500 was what other people here (e.g. Publications staff) were comfortable with. A postcard-sized inkjet print we made from a 600 pixel image was surprisingly good, good enough to scare people. I hope someday we can move beyond this stalemate and provide more useful images to the public, with or without tools such as Zoomify. Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:48 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm aware of the discussion, but what's the limit before you hit "commercially viable"? Surely more than 500px. On 5/5/09 10:39 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Hi Matt, The reason is simple: the museum does not want people to be able to use the large images to produce commercially viable prints. There was a thread on this list awhile back about that issue, and it seems our museum is not alone in taking this approach. We seem to think that there is some money to be made off the images and if anyone is going to make it, it should be us. With Zoomify or jpeg2000 we can offer up the full size image without loading it all at once. If someone really wants to they will still be able to download all of the high-res tiles and reassemble them, but it would be a lot more difficult. Another reason is that some images are published on the web with permission from the copyright owners. The permission form specifies the online image size. We'd have to maintain at least two different maximum file sizes online depending on copyright. Not impossible of course, just kind of a pain! Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:57 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Will, why wait for zoom before providing the large images? I think there are a lot of good arguments for very big images online now: 1) modern browsers handle resizing well 2) scrolling (when an image is too big for the window) is at least as easy for users as zooming, and shows them as much of the picture as will fit in the window (rather than arbitrarily limiting to a zoom pane) 3) connections are getting faster 4) and anyway, images are our "franchise" so if we're going to test users' bandwidth limits, this is the place to do it. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 8:50 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then choose which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px. When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px. In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. Zoomify, jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version from the collections database. Will Real Carnegie Museum of Art ________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size do you use for online purposes? Many thanks! Danielle _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu ) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From jfevans at Princeton.EDU Tue May 5 09:16:51 2009 From: jfevans at Princeton.EDU (Jeffrey Evans) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 12:16:51 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes References: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B92@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> Message-ID: <85A35CF72F0592499E91363FB2158967120008@EXCLUSTER.pu.win.princeton.edu> This has been an interesting thread to read. Here at Princeton we enjoy the cover of an Office of General Counsel. We have had more than a few meetings dealing with what we can and cannot put online. The question is not IF you're going to get burned, but WHEN. One of our attorneys has been neck deep in cases just such as this, and the results are very specific as to what is usable pixel-size-wise. Its a scary litigious world out there and if you're dealing with living artists or other intellectual property that will generate some revenue; make sure you're OK before posting something. JEFF EVANS Princeton Univ Art Museum. -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Eric Johnson Sent: Tue 5/5/2009 11:55 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Matt raises an interesting point: has anybody ever had any problems with people "lifting" high-quality images of your collection without seeking permission and making money with them (posters, t-shirts, etc.)? The only thing I can think of off-hand is more in the vein of taking print-quality images and using them in books without permission. But then again, I'm not familiar with any example of that actually happening; it's just a worry passed down from higher-ups. But I'm curious about any specific examples of such unauthorized reproduction that anybody might have. --E. Eric D. M. Johnson Web Services Librarian Jefferson Library, Monticello P.O. Box 316 Charlottesville, VA 22902 Phone: (434) 984-7540 | Fax: (434) 984-7546 http://www.monticello.org/library/ ejohnson at monticello.org -----Original Message----- From: Morgan, Matt [mailto:matt.morgan at metmuseum.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, but don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining like crazy here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one of my bugbears a little bit. We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a significant, commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object images. It just isn't done--there is no business model in stealing images. Getting images of more than 1000px (from Flickr, for example) of our objects is a trivial matter, so it cannot be that increasing image sizes on our own websites will make this problem materialize. I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all face. I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or blowing them up until they're fuzzy. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 11:10 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Matt, you are probably right, but 500 was what other people here (e.g. Publications staff) were comfortable with. A postcard-sized inkjet print we made from a 600 pixel image was surprisingly good, good enough to scare people. I hope someday we can move beyond this stalemate and provide more useful images to the public, with or without tools such as Zoomify. Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:48 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm aware of the discussion, but what's the limit before you hit "commercially viable"? Surely more than 500px. On 5/5/09 10:39 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Hi Matt, The reason is simple: the museum does not want people to be able to use the large images to produce commercially viable prints. There was a thread on this list awhile back about that issue, and it seems our museum is not alone in taking this approach. We seem to think that there is some money to be made off the images and if anyone is going to make it, it should be us. With Zoomify or jpeg2000 we can offer up the full size image without loading it all at once. If someone really wants to they will still be able to download all of the high-res tiles and reassemble them, but it would be a lot more difficult. Another reason is that some images are published on the web with permission from the copyright owners. The permission form specifies the online image size. We'd have to maintain at least two different maximum file sizes online depending on copyright. Not impossible of course, just kind of a pain! Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:57 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Will, why wait for zoom before providing the large images? I think there are a lot of good arguments for very big images online now: 1) modern browsers handle resizing well 2) scrolling (when an image is too big for the window) is at least as easy for users as zooming, and shows them as much of the picture as will fit in the window (rather than arbitrarily limiting to a zoom pane) 3) connections are getting faster 4) and anyway, images are our "franchise" so if we're going to test users' bandwidth limits, this is the place to do it. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 8:50 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then choose which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px. When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px. In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. Zoomify, jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version from the collections database. Will Real Carnegie Museum of Art ________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size do you use for online purposes? Many thanks! Danielle _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu ) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From matt.morgan at metmuseum.org Tue May 5 09:26:19 2009 From: matt.morgan at metmuseum.org (Morgan, Matt) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 12:26:19 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes In-Reply-To: <85A35CF72F0592499E91363FB2158967120008@EXCLUSTER.pu.win.princeton.edu> Message-ID: Can you share some examples of getting burned? On 5/5/09 12:16 PM, "Jeffrey Evans" wrote: This has been an interesting thread to read. Here at Princeton we enjoy the cover of an Office of General Counsel. We have had more than a few meetings dealing with what we can and cannot put online. The question is not IF you're going to get burned, but WHEN. One of our attorneys has been neck deep in cases just such as this, and the results are very specific as to what is usable pixel-size-wise. Its a scary litigious world out there and if you're dealing with living artists or other intellectual property that will generate some revenue; make sure you're OK before posting something. JEFF EVANS Princeton Univ Art Museum. -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Eric Johnson Sent: Tue 5/5/2009 11:55 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Matt raises an interesting point: has anybody ever had any problems with people "lifting" high-quality images of your collection without seeking permission and making money with them (posters, t-shirts, etc.)? The only thing I can think of off-hand is more in the vein of taking print-quality images and using them in books without permission. But then again, I'm not familiar with any example of that actually happening; it's just a worry passed down from higher-ups. But I'm curious about any specific examples of such unauthorized reproduction that anybody might have. --E. Eric D. M. Johnson Web Services Librarian Jefferson Library, Monticello P.O. Box 316 Charlottesville, VA 22902 Phone: (434) 984-7540 | Fax: (434) 984-7546 http://www.monticello.org/library/ ejohnson at monticello.org -----Original Message----- From: Morgan, Matt [mailto:matt.morgan at metmuseum.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, but don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining like crazy here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one of my bugbears a little bit. We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a significant, commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object images. It just isn't done--there is no business model in stealing images. Getting images of more than 1000px (from Flickr, for example) of our objects is a trivial matter, so it cannot be that increasing image sizes on our own websites will make this problem materialize. I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all face. I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or blowing them up until they're fuzzy. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 11:10 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Matt, you are probably right, but 500 was what other people here (e.g. Publications staff) were comfortable with. A postcard-sized inkjet print we made from a 600 pixel image was surprisingly good, good enough to scare people. I hope someday we can move beyond this stalemate and provide more useful images to the public, with or without tools such as Zoomify. Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:48 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm aware of the discussion, but what's the limit before you hit "commercially viable"? Surely more than 500px. On 5/5/09 10:39 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Hi Matt, The reason is simple: the museum does not want people to be able to use the large images to produce commercially viable prints. There was a thread on this list awhile back about that issue, and it seems our museum is not alone in taking this approach. We seem to think that there is some money to be made off the images and if anyone is going to make it, it should be us. With Zoomify or jpeg2000 we can offer up the full size image without loading it all at once. If someone really wants to they will still be able to download all of the high-res tiles and reassemble them, but it would be a lot more difficult. Another reason is that some images are published on the web with permission from the copyright owners. The permission form specifies the online image size. We'd have to maintain at least two different maximum file sizes online depending on copyright. Not impossible of course, just kind of a pain! Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:57 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Will, why wait for zoom before providing the large images? I think there are a lot of good arguments for very big images online now: 1) modern browsers handle resizing well 2) scrolling (when an image is too big for the window) is at least as easy for users as zooming, and shows them as much of the picture as will fit in the window (rather than arbitrarily limiting to a zoom pane) 3) connections are getting faster 4) and anyway, images are our "franchise" so if we're going to test users' bandwidth limits, this is the place to do it. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 8:50 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then choose which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px. When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px. In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. Zoomify, jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version from the collections database. Will Real Carnegie Museum of Art ________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size do you use for online purposes? Many thanks! Danielle _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu ) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From jfevans at Princeton.EDU Tue May 5 09:27:28 2009 From: jfevans at Princeton.EDU (Jeffrey Evans) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 12:27:28 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes References: Message-ID: <85A35CF72F0592499E91363FB2158967120009@EXCLUSTER.pu.win.princeton.edu> No. Those cases dealt with online media not involving us. We were given entertaining examples, but nothing that I feel comfortable repeating. Right now, our limits are 256pix high. (A glorified thumbnail really.) JEFF -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tue 5/5/2009 12:26 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Can you share some examples of getting burned? On 5/5/09 12:16 PM, "Jeffrey Evans" wrote: This has been an interesting thread to read. Here at Princeton we enjoy the cover of an Office of General Counsel. We have had more than a few meetings dealing with what we can and cannot put online. The question is not IF you're going to get burned, but WHEN. One of our attorneys has been neck deep in cases just such as this, and the results are very specific as to what is usable pixel-size-wise. Its a scary litigious world out there and if you're dealing with living artists or other intellectual property that will generate some revenue; make sure you're OK before posting something. JEFF EVANS Princeton Univ Art Museum. -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Eric Johnson Sent: Tue 5/5/2009 11:55 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Matt raises an interesting point: has anybody ever had any problems with people "lifting" high-quality images of your collection without seeking permission and making money with them (posters, t-shirts, etc.)? The only thing I can think of off-hand is more in the vein of taking print-quality images and using them in books without permission. But then again, I'm not familiar with any example of that actually happening; it's just a worry passed down from higher-ups. But I'm curious about any specific examples of such unauthorized reproduction that anybody might have. --E. Eric D. M. Johnson Web Services Librarian Jefferson Library, Monticello P.O. Box 316 Charlottesville, VA 22902 Phone: (434) 984-7540 | Fax: (434) 984-7546 http://www.monticello.org/library/ ejohnson at monticello.org -----Original Message----- From: Morgan, Matt [mailto:matt.morgan at metmuseum.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, but don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining like crazy here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one of my bugbears a little bit. We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a significant, commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object images. It just isn't done--there is no business model in stealing images. Getting images of more than 1000px (from Flickr, for example) of our objects is a trivial matter, so it cannot be that increasing image sizes on our own websites will make this problem materialize. I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all face. I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or blowing them up until they're fuzzy. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 11:10 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Matt, you are probably right, but 500 was what other people here (e.g. Publications staff) were comfortable with. A postcard-sized inkjet print we made from a 600 pixel image was surprisingly good, good enough to scare people. I hope someday we can move beyond this stalemate and provide more useful images to the public, with or without tools such as Zoomify. Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:48 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm aware of the discussion, but what's the limit before you hit "commercially viable"? Surely more than 500px. On 5/5/09 10:39 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: Hi Matt, The reason is simple: the museum does not want people to be able to use the large images to produce commercially viable prints. There was a thread on this list awhile back about that issue, and it seems our museum is not alone in taking this approach. We seem to think that there is some money to be made off the images and if anyone is going to make it, it should be us. With Zoomify or jpeg2000 we can offer up the full size image without loading it all at once. If someone really wants to they will still be able to download all of the high-res tiles and reassemble them, but it would be a lot more difficult. Another reason is that some images are published on the web with permission from the copyright owners. The permission form specifies the online image size. We'd have to maintain at least two different maximum file sizes online depending on copyright. Not impossible of course, just kind of a pain! Will -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Morgan, Matt Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:57 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Will, why wait for zoom before providing the large images? I think there are a lot of good arguments for very big images online now: 1) modern browsers handle resizing well 2) scrolling (when an image is too big for the window) is at least as easy for users as zooming, and shows them as much of the picture as will fit in the window (rather than arbitrarily limiting to a zoom pane) 3) connections are getting faster 4) and anyway, images are our "franchise" so if we're going to test users' bandwidth limits, this is the place to do it. Thanks, Matt On 5/5/09 8:50 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then choose which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px. When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px. In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. Zoomify, jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version from the collections database. Will Real Carnegie Museum of Art ________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size do you use for online purposes? Many thanks! Danielle _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu ) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From jomiles at mdah.state.ms.us Tue May 5 11:04:00 2009 From: jomiles at mdah.state.ms.us (Jo Miles-Seely) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 13:04:00 -0500 Subject: [MCN-L] Second Life workplace policy Message-ID: <4A007F90.3020200@mdah.state.ms.us> Listers, I've been investigating the uses of Second Life, or any virtual world, for our Department, both as a participant and as a provider. Right now I'm focusing on updating our Department's "Internet Use Agreement" to include appropriate/inappropriate use of virtual worlds for work-related purposes. Do any of you have ideas of what should be included in the policy? Do any of you have policies that cover virtual worlds that you would be willing to share? Thank you for any assistance you can provide. Jo Miles-Seely -- Jo Miles-Seely, Business Systems Analyst Information Systems Office Mississippi Department of Archives & History PO Box 571 Jackson, MS 39205-0571 Telephone: 601-576-6979 Facsimile: 601-576-6975 Email: jomiles at mdah.state.ms.us From proctorn at si.edu Tue May 5 12:59:15 2009 From: proctorn at si.edu (Proctor, Nancy) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 15:59:15 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Re image 'theft' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to Matt Morgan for raising the question of who has actually lost revenues from putting images, even high quality ones, online. I share his skepticism that it's actually as big a problem as we fear. I suspect that it will take less effort and fewer resources to deal with the small number of thefts that will arise than all the wringing of hands and hiring of lawyers for pre-emptive action that we currently engage in. We're discussing business models for the Smithsonian at the moment, so I added Matt's comments at this link: http://smithsonian-webstrategy.wikispaces.com/message/view/Business+Models+W orkshop+Real-Time+Notes/11773461 This is a public wiki, so you're all welcome to participate in the conversation! Nancy Nancy Proctor Head of New Media Initiatives Smithsonian American Art Museum MRC 970 PO Box 37012 Washington DC 20013-7012 USA t: +1-202-633-8439 c: +1-301-642-6257 f: +1-202-633-8455 http://www.americanart.si.edu http://eyelevel.si.edu/ On 5/5/09 3:00 PM, "mcn-l-request at mcn.edu" wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Eric Johnson > Sent: Tue 5/5/2009 11:55 AM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes > > Matt raises an interesting point: has anybody ever had any problems with > people "lifting" high-quality images of your collection without seeking > permission and making money with them (posters, t-shirts, etc.)? > > The only thing I can think of off-hand is more in the vein of taking > print-quality images and using them in books without permission. But > then again, I'm not familiar with any example of that actually > happening; it's just a worry passed down from higher-ups. > > But I'm curious about any specific examples of such unauthorized > reproduction that anybody might have. > > --E. > > Eric D. M. Johnson > Web Services Librarian > Jefferson Library, Monticello > P.O. Box 316 > Charlottesville, VA 22902 > Phone: (434) 984-7540 | Fax: (434) 984-7546 > http://www.monticello.org/library/ > ejohnson at monticello.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Morgan, Matt [mailto:matt.morgan at metmuseum.org] > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes > > I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, but > don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining like crazy > here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one of my > bugbears a little bit. > > We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a significant, > commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object images. It just isn't > done--there is no business model in stealing images. Getting images of > more than 1000px (from Flickr, for example) of our objects is a trivial > matter, so it cannot be that increasing image sizes on our own websites > will make this problem materialize. > > I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all face. > I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start > letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or blowing > them up until they're fuzzy. > > Thanks, > Matt > > From SSmith at getty.edu Tue May 5 13:20:40 2009 From: SSmith at getty.edu (Stanley Smith) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 13:20:40 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Image Sizes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A003D27.0319.00B6.0@getty.edu> If you think that your images are not out there, you are mistaken. At the Getty we have taken pains to manage how our images migrate from our walls, but a quick Google image search of ?Irises? and ?Van Gogh? will yield hundreds of hits (the most hilarious of which is a line of dog-themed ceramic plates with the painting serving as background to visages of various breeds). This is not too concerning, as the artwork itself is in the public domain, and Bridgeman v. Corel says that we can?t claim photographic copyright?so all?s fair in love and war. Speaking of Bridgeman, though, I recently tried to order a print of the same painting from Bridgeman?s website. I am conducting research for a possible print-on-demand service at the Getty --(yes Will, if there is money to be made we should be the ones making it!) -- I wanted to see what other commercial ventures were doing with our images?mostly a quality survey. I foolish used my Getty mailing address when placing the order (a 20 x 24 archival inkjet print on fine-art paper for about $70). Two days later I got an email from Bridgeman stating: ?We regret to inform you that your order of 'Irises,1889' (supplier code BAL40070) cannot be processed due to the transparency being unsuitable for reproduction. The Bridgeman Art Library have advised that the quality of this particular print would be compromised by enlarging it beyond the image size and as a result we have been forced to cancel and refund your order. The image will be removed from our site within the next couple of days to avoid any future disappointment. Even Bridgeman was nervous about copyright issues! Irises was removed from their website the next day. There is really no possible way to prevent your images from getting out in the world. Those CD?s or transparencies that you have sent for scholar requests or publications over the years are still out there, and can fall into any number of hands. Current imaging software is very good at ?rezing? up small image image files into ones that can be used for print. Current stitching software can easily reconstruct Zoomify panes into a very high resolution image. Even if you disable the ability to right-click an image for download, nothing can stop someone from using a screen grab. The best we can do, I think, is to make sure that recipients of our images know exactly what their usage rights are. But we should not be surprised when some people ignore our directives. The PLUS coalition has a great product that helps track and enforce image rights, and they are developing a profile that is specific to museums. A couple of years ago I was exploring other ways to track our images in the ?cloud?. As a test, I gave a company called Idee a set of 400 jpegs of paintings from our collection. They had developed software that crawls the web looking for images based not on text data, but on the images themselves. The results of this test were astonishing?they had hundreds of hits. Ultimately it was not technology that we were willing to adopt?one reason was who has time to sent hundreds of cease-and-desist letters to obscure websites, some of which may have had the images legitimately? Stanley Smith Manager, Imaging Services J. Paul Getty Museum 1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1000 Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687 (310) 440-7286 From khamma at me.com Tue May 5 13:40:28 2009 From: khamma at me.com (Kenneth Hamma) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 13:40:28 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Re image 'theft' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <652FCE4E-5F33-4174-A56C-51E445118CDD@me.com> Regardless the size of the imagined revenue loss, the notion of 'theft' may not be entirely appropriate here, speaking only of payment for IP licensing not payment for services or product. Remember that the institutions mentioned so far operate as public charities - receiving a tax benefit but also encumbered with certain public- benefit responsibilities as a result. And leaving aside works still under copyright, for which we all have well known obligations, as well as works that maintain vital roles in the communities in which they were created, these collections consist of natural specimens or creative works now in the public domain. Who in this scenario would be thieving from whom? For these works, the assertion of copyright in visual surrogates and metadata is not a legal decision (so don't start with lawyers) but a business decision that has on more than one occasion been described purely as an effort to maintain monopoly control. Is it possible to square this with public charities managing public domain collections? ken Kenneth Hamma +1 310 270 8008 khamma at me.com 368 Patel Place Palm Springs CA 92264 On May 5, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Proctor, Nancy wrote: > Thanks to Matt Morgan for raising the question of who has actually > lost > revenues from putting images, even high quality ones, online. I > share his > skepticism that it's actually as big a problem as we fear. I suspect > that it > will take less effort and fewer resources to deal with the small > number of > thefts that will arise than all the wringing of hands and hiring of > lawyers > for pre-emptive action that we currently engage in. > > We're discussing business models for the Smithsonian at the moment, > so I > added Matt's comments at this link: > > http://smithsonian-webstrategy.wikispaces.com/message/view/Business+Models+W > orkshop+Real-Time+Notes/11773461 > > This is a public wiki, so you're all welcome to participate in the > conversation! > > Nancy > > Nancy Proctor > Head of New Media Initiatives > Smithsonian American Art Museum > MRC 970 PO Box 37012 > Washington DC 20013-7012 > USA > > t: +1-202-633-8439 > c: +1-301-642-6257 > f: +1-202-633-8455 > > http://www.americanart.si.edu > http://eyelevel.si.edu/ > > On 5/5/09 3:00 PM, "mcn-l-request at mcn.edu" > wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Eric Johnson >> Sent: Tue 5/5/2009 11:55 AM >> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes >> >> Matt raises an interesting point: has anybody ever had any problems >> with >> people "lifting" high-quality images of your collection without >> seeking >> permission and making money with them (posters, t-shirts, etc.)? >> >> The only thing I can think of off-hand is more in the vein of taking >> print-quality images and using them in books without permission. But >> then again, I'm not familiar with any example of that actually >> happening; it's just a worry passed down from higher-ups. >> >> But I'm curious about any specific examples of such unauthorized >> reproduction that anybody might have. >> >> --E. >> >> Eric D. M. Johnson >> Web Services Librarian >> Jefferson Library, Monticello >> P.O. Box 316 >> Charlottesville, VA 22902 >> Phone: (434) 984-7540 | Fax: (434) 984-7546 >> http://www.monticello.org/library/ >> ejohnson at monticello.org >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Morgan, Matt [mailto:matt.morgan at metmuseum.org] >> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM >> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes >> >> I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, >> but >> don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining like >> crazy >> here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one of my >> bugbears a little bit. >> >> We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a >> significant, >> commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object images. It just >> isn't >> done--there is no business model in stealing images. Getting images >> of >> more than 1000px (from Flickr, for example) of our objects is a >> trivial >> matter, so it cannot be that increasing image sizes on our own >> websites >> will make this problem materialize. >> >> I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all >> face. >> I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start >> letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or >> blowing >> them up until they're fuzzy. >> >> Thanks, >> Matt >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From NHoneysett at getty.edu Tue May 5 15:23:43 2009 From: NHoneysett at getty.edu (Nik Honeysett) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 15:23:43 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Image Sizes In-Reply-To: <4A003D27.0319.00B6.0@getty.edu> References: <4A003D27.0319.00B6.0@getty.edu> Message-ID: <4A0059F9.65B4.001D.0@getty.edu> This reminds me of a classic example in the music industry in the early 90's. Blue Note Record's legal team came across a 12" single called "The Band Played the Boogie" featuring an illegal sampling of Grant Green's "Sookie Sookie", enjoying a huge underground following. Rather than pursue a suit, Blue Note hired the group and gave them access to their full back catalogue. The resulting release was Blue Note's first platinum-selling album (Us3 - Hand on the Torch). So, put your images out there, wait for someone to figure out how to make money from them, then hire them. (wish me luck with getting that through our general counsel). -nik >>> "Stanley Smith" 5/5/2009 1:20 PM >>> If you think that your images are not out there, you are mistaken. At the Getty we have taken pains to manage how our images migrate from our walls, but a quick Google image search of ?Irises? and ?Van Gogh? will yield hundreds of hits (the most hilarious of which is a line of dog-themed ceramic plates with the painting serving as background to visages of various breeds). This is not too concerning, as the artwork itself is in the public domain, and Bridgeman v. Corel says that we can?t claim photographic copyright?so all?s fair in love and war. Speaking of Bridgeman, though, I recently tried to order a print of the same painting from Bridgeman?s website. I am conducting research for a possible print-on-demand service at the Getty --(yes Will, if there is money to be made we should be the ones making it!) -- I wanted to see what other commercial ventures were doing with our images?mostly a quality survey. I foolish used my Getty mailing address when placing the order (a 20 x 24 archival inkjet print on fine-art paper for about $70). Two days later I got an email from Bridgeman stating: ?We regret to inform you that your order of 'Irises,1889' (supplier code BAL40070) cannot be processed due to the transparency being unsuitable for reproduction. The Bridgeman Art Library have advised that the quality of this particular print would be compromised by enlarging it beyond the image size and as a result we have been forced to cancel and refund your order. The image will be removed from our site within the next couple of days to avoid any future disappointment. Even Bridgeman was nervous about copyright issues! Irises was removed from their website the next day. There is really no possible way to prevent your images from getting out in the world. Those CD?s or transparencies that you have sent for scholar requests or publications over the years are still out there, and can fall into any number of hands. Current imaging software is very good at ?rezing? up small image image files into ones that can be used for print. Current stitching software can easily reconstruct Zoomify panes into a very high resolution image. Even if you disable the ability to right-click an image for download, nothing can stop someone from using a screen grab. The best we can do, I think, is to make sure that recipients of our images know exactly what their usage rights are. But we should not be surprised when some people ignore our directives. The PLUS coalition has a great product that helps track and enforce image rights, and they are developing a profile that is specific to museums. A couple of years ago I was exploring other ways to track our images in the ?cloud?. As a test, I gave a company called Idee a set of 400 jpegs of paintings from our collection. They had developed software that crawls the web looking for images based not on text data, but on the images themselves. The results of this test were astonishing?they had hundreds of hits. Ultimately it was not technology that we were willing to adopt?one reason was who has time to sent hundreds of cease-and-desist letters to obscure websites, some of which may have had the images legitimately? Stanley Smith Manager, Imaging Services J. Paul Getty Museum 1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1000 Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687 (310) 440-7286 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From akeshet at imj.org.il Wed May 6 03:40:15 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:40:15 +0300 Subject: [MCN-L] Image Sizes In-Reply-To: <4A003D27.0319.00B6.0@getty.edu> Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B443D5C@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Stanley: The decision in the Bridgeman v. Corel case is binding upon the two parties in that case, period. It is neither legislation nor a Supreme Court decision, and therefore is not "law." It is not a change in the US copyright law, nor a new fair use exception. It is a precedent that may be taken into consideration by a court deciding future cases. And it obviously has no bearing on the copyright laws of other countries. Amalyah Keshet Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management The Israel Museum, Jerusalem -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Stanley Smith Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:21 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes If you think that your images are not out there, you are mistaken. At the Getty we have taken pains to manage how our images migrate from our walls, but a quick Google image search of "Irises" and "Van Gogh" will yield hundreds of hits (the most hilarious of which is a line of dog-themed ceramic plates with the painting serving as background to visages of various breeds). This is not too concerning, as the artwork itself is in the public domain, and Bridgeman v. Corel says that we can't claim photographic copyright-so all's fair in love and war. Speaking of Bridgeman, though, I recently tried to order a print of the same painting from Bridgeman's website. I am conducting research for a possible print-on-demand service at the Getty --(yes Will, if there is money to be made we should be the ones making it!) -- I wanted to see what other commercial ventures were doing with our images-mostly a quality survey. I foolish used my Getty mailing address when placing the order (a 20 x 24 archival inkjet print on fine-art paper for about $70). Two days later I got an email from Bridgeman stating: "We regret to inform you that your order of 'Irises,1889' (supplier code BAL40070) cannot be processed due to the transparency being unsuitable for reproduction. The Bridgeman Art Library have advised that the quality of this particular print would be compromised by enlarging it beyond the image size and as a result we have been forced to cancel and refund your order. The image will be removed from our site within the next couple of days to avoid any future disappointment. Even Bridgeman was nervous about copyright issues! Irises was removed from their website the next day. There is really no possible way to prevent your images from getting out in the world. Those CD's or transparencies that you have sent for scholar requests or publications over the years are still out there, and can fall into any number of hands. Current imaging software is very good at "rezing" up small image image files into ones that can be used for print. Current stitching software can easily reconstruct Zoomify panes into a very high resolution image. Even if you disable the ability to right-click an image for download, nothing can stop someone from using a screen grab. The best we can do, I think, is to make sure that recipients of our images know exactly what their usage rights are. But we should not be surprised when some people ignore our directives. The PLUS coalition has a great product that helps track and enforce image rights, and they are developing a profile that is specific to museums. A couple of years ago I was exploring other ways to track our images in the "cloud". As a test, I gave a company called Idee a set of 400 jpegs of paintings from our collection. They had developed software that crawls the web looking for images based not on text data, but on the images themselves. The results of this test were astonishing-they had hundreds of hits. Ultimately it was not technology that we were willing to adopt-one reason was who has time to sent hundreds of cease-and-desist letters to obscure websites, some of which may have had the images legitimately? Stanley Smith Manager, Imaging Services J. Paul Getty Museum 1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1000 Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687 (310) 440-7286 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From akeshet at imj.org.il Wed May 6 03:40:24 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:40:24 +0300 Subject: [MCN-L] Re image 'theft' In-Reply-To: <652FCE4E-5F33-4174-A56C-51E445118CDD@me.com> Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B443D5D@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Just to stir the pot a bit: Not every museum or archive is a "public charity." Even if that is a particular museum's legal status, it doesn't affect the legal application of copyright protection to any photographs it produces. The assertion of copyright in photographs (including "visual surrogates") is indeed a legal matter. It is a business decision whether or not to charge money for licensing these images. There is a clear legal distinction between the photograph as a protectable creation and the underlying object / work / subject that appears in that photograph. As to "theft," yes it does happen, and yes it obviously and logically results in a loss of potential income. The question is, how much, and does it matter in the end. And the size of the image certainly doesn't matter. A small 72dpi image can be lifted and used in advertising on a commercial website with no effort, resulting in a loss of significant potential licensing income. This is simple logic. And in this particular example, it's legally simple: it's copyright infringement, not "sharing." "There is no business model in stealing images" -- of course there is; I've run into several, um, publishing establishments based on that business model. The interesting issues are in the less blatant examples -- real digital sharing, not commercial rip-off. How do we deal with that? Because we're not going to get anywhere by calling normative digital activity, including sharing, "theft." And some of our institutions really do (sorry, Ken) depend on income from image licensing, among other sources, to stay alive. We need new business models. We need to figure out how to be Google: how to not produce a product, not to offer anything more than thin air (a platform, access, ranking, ones-and-zeros) and yet to make billions, become the source of all knowledge, and take over the world. Amalyah Keshet Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management The Israel Museum, Jerusalem -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Hamma Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:40 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Re image 'theft' Regardless the size of the imagined revenue loss, the notion of 'theft' may not be entirely appropriate here, speaking only of payment for IP licensing not payment for services or product. Remember that the institutions mentioned so far operate as public charities - receiving a tax benefit but also encumbered with certain public- benefit responsibilities as a result. And leaving aside works still under copyright, for which we all have well known obligations, as well as works that maintain vital roles in the communities in which they were created, these collections consist of natural specimens or creative works now in the public domain. Who in this scenario would be thieving from whom? For these works, the assertion of copyright in visual surrogates and metadata is not a legal decision (so don't start with lawyers) but a business decision that has on more than one occasion been described purely as an effort to maintain monopoly control. Is it possible to square this with public charities managing public domain collections? ken Kenneth Hamma +1 310 270 8008 khamma at me.com 368 Patel Place Palm Springs CA 92264 On May 5, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Proctor, Nancy wrote: > Thanks to Matt Morgan for raising the question of who has actually > lost revenues from putting images, even high quality ones, online. I > share his skepticism that it's actually as big a problem as we fear. I > suspect that it will take less effort and fewer resources to deal with > the small number of thefts that will arise than all the wringing of > hands and hiring of lawyers for pre-emptive action that we currently > engage in. > > We're discussing business models for the Smithsonian at the moment, so > I added Matt's comments at this link: > > http://smithsonian-webstrategy.wikispaces.com/message/view/Business+Mo > dels+W > orkshop+Real-Time+Notes/11773461 > > This is a public wiki, so you're all welcome to participate in the > conversation! > > Nancy > > Nancy Proctor > Head of New Media Initiatives > Smithsonian American Art Museum > MRC 970 PO Box 37012 > Washington DC 20013-7012 > USA > > t: +1-202-633-8439 > c: +1-301-642-6257 > f: +1-202-633-8455 > > http://www.americanart.si.edu > http://eyelevel.si.edu/ > > On 5/5/09 3:00 PM, "mcn-l-request at mcn.edu" > wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Eric Johnson >> Sent: Tue 5/5/2009 11:55 AM >> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes >> >> Matt raises an interesting point: has anybody ever had any problems >> with people "lifting" high-quality images of your collection without >> seeking permission and making money with them (posters, t-shirts, >> etc.)? >> >> The only thing I can think of off-hand is more in the vein of taking >> print-quality images and using them in books without permission. But >> then again, I'm not familiar with any example of that actually >> happening; it's just a worry passed down from higher-ups. >> >> But I'm curious about any specific examples of such unauthorized >> reproduction that anybody might have. >> >> --E. >> >> Eric D. M. Johnson >> Web Services Librarian >> Jefferson Library, Monticello >> P.O. Box 316 >> Charlottesville, VA 22902 >> Phone: (434) 984-7540 | Fax: (434) 984-7546 >> http://www.monticello.org/library/ >> ejohnson at monticello.org >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Morgan, Matt [mailto:matt.morgan at metmuseum.org] >> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM >> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes >> >> I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, >> but don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining like >> crazy here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one >> of my bugbears a little bit. >> >> We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a >> significant, commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object >> images. It just isn't done--there is no business model in stealing >> images. Getting images of more than 1000px (from Flickr, for example) >> of our objects is a trivial matter, so it cannot be that increasing >> image sizes on our own websites will make this problem materialize. >> >> I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all >> face. >> I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start >> letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or >> blowing them up until they're fuzzy. >> >> Thanks, >> Matt >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From kamoroso at mainehistory.org Wed May 6 07:31:15 2009 From: kamoroso at mainehistory.org (Kathy Amoroso) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 10:31:15 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Subject: Re: image sizes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, I have been following your thread about image use. We at Maine Memory Network (Maine Historical Society) will provide our low res images (watermarked and 625 pixels wide) for nothing from the site for educational use only. If publishers or retailers want to use our images, we charge for a high resolution image that can be found on our site VintageMaineImages.com or they can order over the phone and we FTP the image to them. It takes time to fulfill orders and to scan and catalog our items so basically the charges cover the staff person who handles all the requests. We bring in $1000-2000 per month selling our images to small publishers, the Martha Stewart show, LL Bean, and other outfits. We need the extra income to keep that service alive, otherwise we couldn't offer it. We only had one instance where someone right-clicked and saved all kinds of images from our mainememory.net site, cropped off the watermarks and created a DVD that they sold. We found out about it and sent a letter to the producer and told them to stop immediately. It was a teacher so we felt she should have known better. It was the principle of the whole thing. We would have struck a bargain with her, if only she had asked. The images she used were not just Maine Historical Society collections since Maine Memory is a site with over 200 participating organizations. Kathy ************************ Kathy Bolduc Amoroso Director of Digital Projects kamoroso at mainehistory.org or kathy at mainememory.net Maine Historical Society, 489 Congress Street, Portland, ME 04101 (207)774-1822 x227 | www.mainehistory.org | www.mainememory.net From chris at mccastle.com Wed May 6 07:46:04 2009 From: chris at mccastle.com (Christine Castle) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 10:46:04 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Museum education research and evaluation - Call to list projects Message-ID: May 6, 2009 Are you currently researching or evaluating any aspect of museum education or interpretation? If so, I would like to list your ongoing research in MUSEUM EDUCATION MONITOR (MEM), my monthly e-newsletter. I welcome listings by museum workers, consultants, faculty, and students at all levels of study. To assist these research efforts, I continue to offer a free introductory one-year subscription to any student in a museum education-related course or program. Visit http://www.mccastle.com/Public/MEM.aspx for details. (I also offer a complimentary one-year subscription to any museum educator who is currently unwaged. Contact me at chris at mccastle.com for details.) To share research or evaluation with others around the world, please send an e-mail to mem at mccastle.com that includes: - name of project - question(s) [no more than 50 words, please] - how the data will be presented - principal researcher(s)/ evaluator(s) - site(s) where research is being conducted - time span - contact information - key words/labels to describe the project [no more than 4 or 5, please]. For possible labels from past listings, sign in to the MEM blog, "FORUM: Research and Resources in Museum Education" at http://forum.mccastle.com/. All listings are free of charge and displayed in their language of origin. Deadline for the May MEM is Friday, May 15. Please get in touch for more information about this call or to discuss your research. I look forward to hearing from you! M. Christine Castle, Editor, Museum Education Monitor mem at mccastle.com For more information about Museum Education Monitor or to subscribe see http://www.mccastle.com (As always, please excuse cross-postings. I try to extend the call as widely as possible. Inevitably many of us are subscribed to several electronic discussion lists related to museum education. For those who are, your patience is appreciated. CC.} From virginiarutledge at yahoo.com Wed May 6 08:57:42 2009 From: virginiarutledge at yahoo.com (Virginia Rutledge) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 08:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [MCN-L] Image Sizes Message-ID: <334253.19822.qm@web39707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Amalyah, Without giving legal advice, I do think it is important to note that Bridgeman is law within the Southern District of New York (and many commentators believe it would be followed not only in the Second Circuit, but other US circuit courts as well). Should any of the many museums who are within the SDNY jurisdiction seek to contest or overturn that ruling, they would have to go to court. Of course, business practices aren't always strictly legal, even when they're standard, and business practices aren't necessarily litigated, even when they are "illegal". It would be really interesting to see some hard numbers on profit and cost with respect to museum image licensing practices generally -- not just the licensing of images of two-dimensional works in the public domain that was at issue in Bridgeman -- from a lot of museums. There have been a few studies, I realize, but none comprehensive or, many think, conclusive. However, I've been told by a number of people that their organizations would either not be able to determine those numbers, because for example they don't track and analyze staff time involved, and/or that their organizations would not want to make those numbers public. Query both those responses, particularly for publicly-supported entities. I wonder how many of the museums represented on this list would be willing to account for and disclose their numbers? It might be an important step toward understanding how to build better and more profitable business models -- perhaps collaborative? -- involving images. While museums obviously must work under the copyright regimes of their various jurisdictions, images are a global business today. And obviously any monetary profit a museum can make while serving its mission is good. Thank you for this most interesting thread. Regards, Virginia --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] wrote: From: Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes To: "'Museum Computer Network Listserv'" Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 3:40 AM Stanley: The decision in the Bridgeman v. Corel case is binding upon the two parties in that case, period.? It is neither legislation nor a Supreme Court decision, and therefore is not "law."? It is not a change in the US copyright law, nor a new fair use exception.? It is a precedent that may be taken into consideration by a court deciding future cases. And it obviously has no bearing on the copyright laws of other countries. Amalyah Keshet Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management The Israel Museum, Jerusalem -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Stanley Smith Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:21 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes If you think that your images are not out there, you are mistaken.? At the Getty we have taken pains to manage how our images migrate from our walls, but a quick Google image search of "Irises" and "Van Gogh" will yield hundreds of hits (the most hilarious of which is a line of dog-themed ceramic plates with the painting serving as background to visages of various breeds).? This is not too concerning, as the artwork itself is in the public domain, and Bridgeman v. Corel says that we can't claim photographic copyright-so all's fair in love and war. Speaking of Bridgeman, though, I recently tried to order a print of the same painting from Bridgeman's website. I am conducting research for a possible print-on-demand service at the Getty --(yes Will, if there is money to be made we should be the ones making it!) -- I wanted to see what other commercial ventures were doing with our images-mostly a quality survey.? I foolish used my Getty mailing address when placing the order (a 20 x 24 archival inkjet print on fine-art paper for about $70).? Two days later I got an email from Bridgeman stating: "We regret to inform you that your order of 'Irises,1889' (supplier code BAL40070) cannot be processed due to the transparency being unsuitable for reproduction. The Bridgeman Art Library have advised that the quality of this particular print would be compromised by enlarging it beyond the image size and as a result we have been? forced to cancel and refund your order. The image will be removed from our site within the next couple of days to avoid any future? disappointment. Even Bridgeman was nervous about copyright issues!? Irises was removed from their website the next day.? There is really no possible way to prevent your images from getting out in the world.? Those CD's or transparencies that you have sent for scholar requests or publications over the years are still out there, and can fall into any number of hands.? Current imaging software is very good at "rezing" up small image image files into ones that can be used for print.? Current stitching software can easily reconstruct Zoomify panes into a very high resolution image.? Even if you disable the ability to right-click an image for download, nothing can stop someone from using a screen grab. The best we can do, I think, is to make sure that recipients of our images know exactly what their usage rights are.? But we should not be surprised when some people ignore our directives. The PLUS coalition has a great product that helps track and enforce image rights, and they are developing a profile that is specific to museums. A couple of years ago I was exploring other ways to track our images in the "cloud".? As a test, I gave a company called Idee a set of 400 jpegs of paintings from our collection.? They had developed software that crawls the web looking for images based not on text data, but on the images themselves.? The results of this test were astonishing-they had hundreds of hits.? Ultimately it was not technology that we were willing to adopt-one reason was who has time to sent hundreds of cease-and-desist letters to obscure websites, some of which may have had the images legitimately? Stanley Smith Manager, Imaging Services J. Paul Getty Museum 1200 Getty Center Drive,? Suite 1000 Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687 (310) 440-7286 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From khamma at me.com Wed May 6 09:01:56 2009 From: khamma at me.com (Kenneth Hamma) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 09:01:56 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Image Sizes In-Reply-To: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B443D5C@mailsrv.imj.org.il> References: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B443D5C@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Message-ID: <2A8097E4-A9BE-4047-8F07-8D641E445F9F@me.com> Amalyah's cautionary note is important and nearly correct. The Bridgeman v Corel decision is case law in the jurisdiction in which it was decided, namely the Southern District of New York. And there have been follow-on decisions that provide nuance. From Wikipdeia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgeman_Art_Library_Ltd._v._Corel_Corporation Several federal courts have followed the ruling in Bridgeman. In Meshwerks v. Toyota[2], the Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit favorably cited Bridgeman v. Corel, extending the reasoning in Bridgeman to cover 3D wireframe meshes of existing 3D objects. The appeals court wrote "[T]he law is becoming increasingly clear: one possesses no copyright interest in reproductions ... when these reproductions do nothing more than accurately convey the underlying image". Specifically following Bridgeman, the appeals court wrote, "In Bridgeman Art Library, the court examined whether color transparencies of public domain works of art were sufficiently original for copyright protection, ultimately holding that, as 'exact photographic copies of public domain works of art,' they were not." The appeals court ruling cited and followed the United States Supreme Court decision in Feist Publications v. Rural Telephone Service (1991), explicitly rejecting difficulty of labor or expense as a consideration in copyrightability. This line of reasoning has been followed in other cases, such as Eastern America Trio Products v. Tang Electronic Corp (2000), where it was ruled that there is "very broad scope for copyright in photographs, encompassing almost any photograph that reflects more than 'slavish copying'."[1] But this is still of very limited applicability. ken Kenneth Hamma +1 310 270 8008 khamma at me.com 368 Patel Place Palm Springs CA 92264 On May 6, 2009, at 3:40 AM, Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] wrote: > Stanley: > > The decision in the Bridgeman v. Corel case is binding upon the two > parties in that case, period. It is neither legislation nor a > Supreme Court decision, and therefore is not "law." It is not a > change in the US copyright law, nor a new fair use exception. It is > a precedent that may be taken into consideration by a court deciding > future cases. And it obviously has no bearing on the copyright laws > of other countries. > > > Amalyah Keshet > Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management > The Israel Museum, Jerusalem > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf > Of Stanley Smith > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:21 PM > To: mcn-l at mcn.edu > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes > > > If you think that your images are not out there, you are mistaken. > At the Getty we have taken pains to manage how our images migrate > from our walls, but a quick Google image search of "Irises" and "Van > Gogh" will yield hundreds of hits (the most hilarious of which is a > line of dog-themed ceramic plates with the painting serving as > background to visages of various breeds). This is not too > concerning, as the artwork itself is in the public domain, and > Bridgeman v. Corel says that we can't claim photographic copyright- > so all's fair in love and war. > > Speaking of Bridgeman, though, I recently tried to order a print of > the same painting from Bridgeman's website. I am conducting research > for a possible print-on-demand service at the Getty --(yes Will, if > there is money to be made we should be the ones making it!) -- I > wanted to see what other commercial ventures were doing with our > images-mostly a quality survey. I foolish used my Getty mailing > address when placing the order (a 20 x 24 archival inkjet print on > fine-art paper for about $70). Two days later I got an email from > Bridgeman stating: > > "We regret to inform you that your order of 'Irises,1889' (supplier > code BAL40070) cannot be processed due to the transparency being > unsuitable for reproduction. The Bridgeman Art Library have advised > that the quality of this particular print would be compromised by > enlarging it beyond the image size and as a result we have been > forced to cancel and refund your order. The image will be removed > from our site within the next couple of days to avoid any future > disappointment. > > Even Bridgeman was nervous about copyright issues! Irises was > removed from their website the next day. There is really no > possible way to prevent your images from getting out in the world. > Those CD's or transparencies that you have sent for scholar requests > or publications over the years are still out there, and can fall > into any number of hands. Current imaging software is very good at > "rezing" up small image image files into ones that can be used for > print. Current stitching software can easily reconstruct Zoomify > panes into a very high resolution image. Even if you disable the > ability to right-click an image for download, nothing can stop > someone from using a screen grab. > > The best we can do, I think, is to make sure that recipients of our > images know exactly what their usage rights are. But we should not > be surprised when some people ignore our directives. The PLUS > coalition has a great product that helps track and enforce image > rights, and they are developing a profile that is specific to museums. > > A couple of years ago I was exploring other ways to track our images > in the "cloud". As a test, I gave a company called Idee a set of > 400 jpegs of paintings from our collection. They had developed > software that crawls the web looking for images based not on text > data, but on the images themselves. The results of this test were > astonishing-they had hundreds of hits. Ultimately it was not > technology that we were willing to adopt-one reason was who has time > to sent hundreds of cease-and-desist letters to obscure websites, > some of which may have had the images legitimately? > > > Stanley Smith > Manager, Imaging Services > J. Paul Getty Museum > 1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1000 > Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687 > (310) 440-7286 > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From khamma at me.com Wed May 6 09:10:36 2009 From: khamma at me.com (Kenneth Hamma) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 09:10:36 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Re image 'theft' In-Reply-To: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B443D5D@mailsrv.imj.org.il> References: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B443D5D@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Message-ID: <8CA7F108-1162-4942-9495-2DF5F068FF0F@me.com> The argument that I made was not intended to be based on a strict interpretation of copyright law but on public responsibility. So, with respect to my note, most of this is beside the point and a restatement of traditional argument. I should have been clearer in my assertion of the business decision. The notion of copyright is indeed a legal matter. Whether or not to assert copyright (not merely how much to charge) is, however, a business decision as there are numerous alternative courses for the creator. Among these are a variety of Creative Commons licensing schemes to a complete waiver of copyright. ken Kenneth Hamma +1 310 270 8008 khamma at me.com 368 Patel Place Palm Springs CA 92264 On May 6, 2009, at 3:40 AM, Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] wrote: > Just to stir the pot a bit: > > Not every museum or archive is a "public charity." Even if that is > a particular museum's legal status, it doesn't affect the legal > application of copyright protection to any photographs it produces. > > The assertion of copyright in photographs (including "visual > surrogates") is indeed a legal matter. It is a business decision > whether or not to charge money for licensing these images. There is > a clear legal distinction between the photograph as a protectable > creation and the underlying object / work / subject that appears in > that photograph. > > As to "theft," yes it does happen, and yes it obviously and > logically results in a loss of potential income. The question is, > how much, and does it matter in the end. And the size of the image > certainly doesn't matter. A small 72dpi image can be lifted and > used in advertising on a commercial website with no effort, > resulting in a loss of significant potential licensing income. This > is simple logic. And in this particular example, it's legally > simple: it's copyright infringement, not "sharing." "There is no > business model in stealing images" -- of course there is; I've run > into several, um, publishing establishments based on that business > model. > > The interesting issues are in the less blatant examples -- real > digital sharing, not commercial rip-off. How do we deal with that? > Because we're not going to get anywhere by calling normative digital > activity, including sharing, "theft." And some of our institutions > really do (sorry, Ken) depend on income from image licensing, among > other sources, to stay alive. We need new business models. We need > to figure out how to be Google: how to not produce a product, not > to offer anything more than thin air (a platform, access, ranking, > ones-and-zeros) and yet to make billions, become the source of all > knowledge, and take over the world. > > > Amalyah Keshet > Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management > The Israel Museum, Jerusalem > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf > Of Kenneth Hamma > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:40 PM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Re image 'theft' > > Regardless the size of the imagined revenue loss, the notion of > 'theft' may not be entirely appropriate here, speaking only of > payment for IP licensing not payment for services or product. > Remember that the institutions mentioned so far operate as public > charities - receiving a tax benefit but also encumbered with certain > public- benefit responsibilities as a result. And leaving aside > works still under copyright, for which we all have well known > obligations, as well as works that maintain vital roles in the > communities in which they were created, these collections consist of > natural specimens or creative works now in the public domain. Who > in this scenario would be thieving from whom? > > For these works, the assertion of copyright in visual surrogates and > metadata is not a legal decision (so don't start with lawyers) but a > business decision that has on more than one occasion been described > purely as an effort to maintain monopoly control. Is it possible to > square this with public charities managing public domain collections? > > ken > > > Kenneth Hamma > > +1 310 270 8008 > khamma at me.com > > 368 Patel Place > Palm Springs CA 92264 > > On May 5, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Proctor, Nancy wrote: > >> Thanks to Matt Morgan for raising the question of who has actually >> lost revenues from putting images, even high quality ones, online. I >> share his skepticism that it's actually as big a problem as we >> fear. I >> suspect that it will take less effort and fewer resources to deal >> with >> the small number of thefts that will arise than all the wringing of >> hands and hiring of lawyers for pre-emptive action that we currently >> engage in. >> >> We're discussing business models for the Smithsonian at the moment, >> so >> I added Matt's comments at this link: >> >> http://smithsonian-webstrategy.wikispaces.com/message/view/Business >> +Mo >> dels+W >> orkshop+Real-Time+Notes/11773461 >> >> This is a public wiki, so you're all welcome to participate in the >> conversation! >> >> Nancy >> >> Nancy Proctor >> Head of New Media Initiatives >> Smithsonian American Art Museum >> MRC 970 PO Box 37012 >> Washington DC 20013-7012 >> USA >> >> t: +1-202-633-8439 >> c: +1-301-642-6257 >> f: +1-202-633-8455 >> >> http://www.americanart.si.edu >> http://eyelevel.si.edu/ >> >> On 5/5/09 3:00 PM, "mcn-l-request at mcn.edu" >> wrote: >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Eric Johnson >>> Sent: Tue 5/5/2009 11:55 AM >>> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >>> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes >>> >>> Matt raises an interesting point: has anybody ever had any problems >>> with people "lifting" high-quality images of your collection without >>> seeking permission and making money with them (posters, t-shirts, >>> etc.)? >>> >>> The only thing I can think of off-hand is more in the vein of taking >>> print-quality images and using them in books without permission. >>> But >>> then again, I'm not familiar with any example of that actually >>> happening; it's just a worry passed down from higher-ups. >>> >>> But I'm curious about any specific examples of such unauthorized >>> reproduction that anybody might have. >>> >>> --E. >>> >>> Eric D. M. Johnson >>> Web Services Librarian >>> Jefferson Library, Monticello >>> P.O. Box 316 >>> Charlottesville, VA 22902 >>> Phone: (434) 984-7540 | Fax: (434) 984-7546 >>> http://www.monticello.org/library/ >>> ejohnson at monticello.org >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Morgan, Matt [mailto:matt.morgan at metmuseum.org] >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM >>> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >>> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes >>> >>> I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, >>> but don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining >>> like >>> crazy here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one >>> of my bugbears a little bit. >>> >>> We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a >>> significant, commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object >>> images. It just isn't done--there is no business model in stealing >>> images. Getting images of more than 1000px (from Flickr, for >>> example) >>> of our objects is a trivial matter, so it cannot be that increasing >>> image sizes on our own websites will make this problem materialize. >>> >>> I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all >>> face. >>> I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start >>> letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or >>> blowing them up until they're fuzzy. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Matt >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum >> Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) >> >> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu >> >> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l >> >> The MCN-L archives can be found at: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From psully at magnes.org Wed May 6 09:40:17 2009 From: psully at magnes.org (Perian Sully) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 09:40:17 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes In-Reply-To: <4BFD3C73-937F-4D9D-94DA-4486DB706C03@me.com> References: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B0E@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org><04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B92@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> <4BFD3C73-937F-4D9D-94DA-4486DB706C03@me.com> Message-ID: I wonder if anyone from the V&A is here? They also offer free, full, high-resolution downloads for many of their works. They're incredibly useful for my own textile research, and it has become a beloved resource for my costuming community. But I'd be really curious to hear how their fee requests have picked up. Here at the Magnes, we keep wrangling back and forth about it. At the moment, the archival materials are at around 3000 pixels, while the objects are anywhere from 500 to 1000px. The 500px size (along with watermarks) was an early decision, but in the past few months, I've begun processing them up to 1000px. I may also leave some at 3000px, assuming there are details (text, especially) which require zooming in to study. It's inconsistent and I need to rethink a lot of this before we go online. A strange thing has happened this year, however, which is giving me pause. In past years (note that our materials, up until very recently, have never been available online), we have generated around $4000-6000/year in reproduction fees, most of that from one famous painting we have in our collection. In late 2008, we began publishing our materials on Flickr, in relatively high image sizes. We also started releasing information about our collections in ways that were easily findable by researchers. In March of this year, my boss commented that we had already generated somewhere in the order of $10,000 in fees - just in the first three months of 2009! We have had some complaints that our fees are too high (they are relatively high on paper, but we do negotiate), and we're retooling it as we learn better. But we've definitely noticed that the financial benefits are outweighing the risks thus far. ~P Perian Sully Collections Information Manager Web Programs Strategist The Magnes Berkeley, CA -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Hamma Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 8:26 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes Will, Moving beyond this is happening in lots of places already. Look, for example, at the image availability for prints in the British Museum: e.g., http://tinyurl.com/cu9the According to staff at the British Museum, this has proven very popular, way beyond the point that they could have any hope of enforcing the use limitations - if they had ever intended to do so for images of public domain works. ken Kenneth Hamma +1 310 270 8008 khamma at me.com 368 Patel Place Palm Springs CA 92264 On May 5, 2009, at 8:10 AM, Real, Will wrote: > Matt, you are probably right, but 500 was what other people here (e.g. > Publications staff) were comfortable with. A postcard-sized inkjet > print > we made from a 600 pixel image was surprisingly good, good enough to > scare people. I hope someday we can move beyond this stalemate and > provide more useful images to the public, with or without tools such > as > Zoomify. > > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf > Of > Morgan, Matt > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:48 AM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes > > I'm aware of the discussion, but what's the limit before you hit > "commercially viable"? Surely more than 500px. > > On 5/5/09 10:39 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: > > Hi Matt, > > The reason is simple: the museum does not want people to be able to > use > the large images to produce commercially viable prints. There was a > thread on this list awhile back about that issue, and it seems our > museum is not alone in taking this approach. We seem to think that > there > is some money to be made off the images and if anyone is going to make > it, it should be us. > > With Zoomify or jpeg2000 we can offer up the full size image without > loading it all at once. If someone really wants to they will still be > able to download all of the high-res tiles and reassemble them, but it > would be a lot more difficult. > > Another reason is that some images are published on the web with > permission from the copyright owners. The permission form specifies > the > online image size. We'd have to maintain at least two different > maximum > file sizes online depending on copyright. Not impossible of course, > just > kind of a pain! > > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf > Of > Morgan, Matt > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:57 AM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes > > Will, why wait for zoom before providing the large images? I think > there > are a lot of good arguments for very big images online now: > > 1) modern browsers handle resizing well > 2) scrolling (when an image is too big for the window) is at least as > easy for users as zooming, and shows them as much of the picture as > will > fit in the window (rather than arbitrarily limiting to a zoom pane) > 3) connections are getting faster > 4) and anyway, images are our "franchise" so if we're going to test > users' bandwidth limits, this is the place to do it. > > Thanks, > Matt > > > On 5/5/09 8:50 AM, "Real, Will" wrote: > > We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database > creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then > choose > which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are > about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of > the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px. > > When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are > created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px. > > In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. > Zoomify, > jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version > from > the collections database. > > Will Real > Carnegie Museum of Art > > ________________________________ > > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images > Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57 > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes > > > > I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their > internal > databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What > size > do you use for online purposes? > > Many thanks! > Danielle > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu > > ww.mcn.edu/> ) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From bwyman at denverartmuseum.org Wed May 6 10:00:39 2009 From: bwyman at denverartmuseum.org (Bruce Wyman) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 11:00:39 -0600 Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes In-Reply-To: References: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B0E@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseu ms.Org><04EFDDC9208D114890720783D 4924BEB19752B92@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> <4BFD3C73-937F-4D9D-94DA-4486DB706C03@me.com> Message-ID: >In late 2008, we began publishing >our materials on Flickr, in relatively high image sizes. We also started >releasing information about our collections in ways that were easily >findable by researchers. In March of this year, my boss commented that >we had already generated somewhere in the order of $10,000 in fees - >just in the first three months of 2009! That's awesome. I agree with others here that the museum stranglehold on clinging to the desperate dreams of deep licensing revenue doesn't bear out in cost-analysis for *most* museums. Ken's also spot on to reference creative commons licensing and whoever else pointed out that Cory Doctorow's observation that he's selling more through cc licensing his work. There was a recent study which I can't find at the moment that people who most frequently shared music online were also the most frequent purchasers. It stands out as being a european observation, so I'm sure will instantly dismiss it here in America, but it was an interesting reference point. It seems that pretty consistently the real world is showing us the having a fairly open commons pays off financially (and philosophically). I'd rather spend time on creating stuff to help users rather than restrict them. -bw. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Bruce Wyman, Director of Technology Denver Art Museum / 100 W 14th Ave. Pkwy, Denver, CO 80204 office: 720.913.0159 / fax: 720.913.0002 From akeshet at imj.org.il Wed May 6 10:13:54 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 20:13:54 +0300 Subject: [MCN-L] =?windows-1255?b?/v5SRTogIFJlIGltYWdlICd0aGVmdCc=?= In-Reply-To: <8CA7F108-1162-4942-9495-2DF5F068FF0F@me.com> References: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B443D5D@mailsrv.imj.org.il>, <8CA7F108-1162-4942-9495-2DF5F068FF0F@me.com> Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B43FAAC@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Just to nitpick, a Creative Commons license is an assertion of copyright. That is, it grants permission based on the assumption / fact / assertion that the work is protected by copyright. For example, the "attribution, non-commercial, share alike" license asserts that the creator/copyright holder must be credited, it is limited to non-commercial uses based on the creator/copyright holder's exclusive rights, and on the same basis the creator/copyright holder can insist that the end user grant the same license on the new works he creates. (Virginia: jump in here before I bury myself any deeper.) . There is, however, now a CC0 ('CC Zero') license that is "may be used by anyone wishing to permanently surrender the copyright and database rights they may have in a work, thereby placing it as nearly as possible into the public domain" which speaks to what you're suggesting. I wonder, however, if choosing this option would be a good business decision for a museum or even a matter of public responsibility. I'm not saying it isn't -- I'm just wondering. Amalyah ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Kenneth Hamma [khamma at me.com] ??????: ????? ????? 06 ??? 2009 19:10 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] Re image 'theft' The argument that I made was not intended to be based on a strict interpretation of copyright law but on public responsibility. So, with respect to my note, most of this is beside the point and a restatement of traditional argument. I should have been clearer in my assertion of the business decision. The notion of copyright is indeed a legal matter. Whether or not to assert copyright (not merely how much to charge) is, however, a business decision as there are numerous alternative courses for the creator. Among these are a variety of Creative Commons licensing schemes to a complete waiver of copyright. ken Kenneth Hamma +1 310 270 8008 khamma at me.com 368 Patel Place Palm Springs CA 92264 On May 6, 2009, at 3:40 AM, Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] wrote: > Just to stir the pot a bit: > > Not every museum or archive is a "public charity." Even if that is > a particular museum's legal status, it doesn't affect the legal > application of copyright protection to any photographs it produces. > > The assertion of copyright in photographs (including "visual > surrogates") is indeed a legal matter. It is a business decision > whether or not to charge money for licensing these images. There is > a clear legal distinction between the photograph as a protectable > creation and the underlying object / work / subject that appears in > that photograph. > > As to "theft," yes it does happen, and yes it obviously and > logically results in a loss of potential income. The question is, > how much, and does it matter in the end. And the size of the image > certainly doesn't matter. A small 72dpi image can be lifted and > used in advertising on a commercial website with no effort, > resulting in a loss of significant potential licensing income. This > is simple logic. And in this particular example, it's legally > simple: it's copyright infringement, not "sharing." "There is no > business model in stealing images" -- of course there is; I've run > into several, um, publishing establishments based on that business > model. > > The interesting issues are in the less blatant examples -- real > digital sharing, not commercial rip-off. How do we deal with that? > Because we're not going to get anywhere by calling normative digital > activity, including sharing, "theft." And some of our institutions > really do (sorry, Ken) depend on income from image licensing, among > other sources, to stay alive. We need new business models. We need > to figure out how to be Google: how to not produce a product, not > to offer anything more than thin air (a platform, access, ranking, > ones-and-zeros) and yet to make billions, become the source of all > knowledge, and take over the world. > > > Amalyah Keshet > Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management > The Israel Museum, Jerusalem > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf > Of Kenneth Hamma > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:40 PM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Re image 'theft' > > Regardless the size of the imagined revenue loss, the notion of > 'theft' may not be entirely appropriate here, speaking only of > payment for IP licensing not payment for services or product. > Remember that the institutions mentioned so far operate as public > charities - receiving a tax benefit but also encumbered with certain > public- benefit responsibilities as a result. And leaving aside > works still under copyright, for which we all have well known > obligations, as well as works that maintain vital roles in the > communities in which they were created, these collections consist of > natural specimens or creative works now in the public domain. Who > in this scenario would be thieving from whom? > > For these works, the assertion of copyright in visual surrogates and > metadata is not a legal decision (so don't start with lawyers) but a > business decision that has on more than one occasion been described > purely as an effort to maintain monopoly control. Is it possible to > square this with public charities managing public domain collections? > > ken > > > Kenneth Hamma > > +1 310 270 8008 > khamma at me.com > > 368 Patel Place > Palm Springs CA 92264 > > On May 5, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Proctor, Nancy wrote: > >> Thanks to Matt Morgan for raising the question of who has actually >> lost revenues from putting images, even high quality ones, online. I >> share his skepticism that it's actually as big a problem as we >> fear. I >> suspect that it will take less effort and fewer resources to deal >> with >> the small number of thefts that will arise than all the wringing of >> hands and hiring of lawyers for pre-emptive action that we currently >> engage in. >> >> We're discussing business models for the Smithsonian at the moment, >> so >> I added Matt's comments at this link: >> >> http://smithsonian-webstrategy.wikispaces.com/message/view/Business >> +Mo >> dels+W >> orkshop+Real-Time+Notes/11773461 >> >> This is a public wiki, so you're all welcome to participate in the >> conversation! >> >> Nancy >> >> Nancy Proctor >> Head of New Media Initiatives >> Smithsonian American Art Museum >> MRC 970 PO Box 37012 >> Washington DC 20013-7012 >> USA >> >> t: +1-202-633-8439 >> c: +1-301-642-6257 >> f: +1-202-633-8455 >> >> http://www.americanart.si.edu >> http://eyelevel.si.edu/ >> >> On 5/5/09 3:00 PM, "mcn-l-request at mcn.edu" >> wrote: >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Eric Johnson >>> Sent: Tue 5/5/2009 11:55 AM >>> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >>> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes >>> >>> Matt raises an interesting point: has anybody ever had any problems >>> with people "lifting" high-quality images of your collection without >>> seeking permission and making money with them (posters, t-shirts, >>> etc.)? >>> >>> The only thing I can think of off-hand is more in the vein of taking >>> print-quality images and using them in books without permission. >>> But >>> then again, I'm not familiar with any example of that actually >>> happening; it's just a worry passed down from higher-ups. >>> >>> But I'm curious about any specific examples of such unauthorized >>> reproduction that anybody might have. >>> >>> --E. >>> >>> Eric D. M. Johnson >>> Web Services Librarian >>> Jefferson Library, Monticello >>> P.O. Box 316 >>> Charlottesville, VA 22902 >>> Phone: (434) 984-7540 | Fax: (434) 984-7546 >>> http://www.monticello.org/library/ >>> ejohnson at monticello.org >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Morgan, Matt [mailto:matt.morgan at metmuseum.org] >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM >>> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >>> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes >>> >>> I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, >>> but don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining >>> like >>> crazy here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one >>> of my bugbears a little bit. >>> >>> We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a >>> significant, commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object >>> images. It just isn't done--there is no business model in stealing >>> images. Getting images of more than 1000px (from Flickr, for >>> example) >>> of our objects is a trivial matter, so it cannot be that increasing >>> image sizes on our own websites will make this problem materialize. >>> >>> I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all >>> face. >>> I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start >>> letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or >>> blowing them up until they're fuzzy. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Matt >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum >> Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) >> >> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu >> >> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l >> >> The MCN-L archives can be found at: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From akeshet at imj.org.il Wed May 6 10:18:51 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 20:18:51 +0300 Subject: [MCN-L] =?windows-1255?q?=FE=FERE=3A__image_sizes?= In-Reply-To: References: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B0E@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseu ms.Org><04EFDDC9208D114890720783D 4924BEB19752B92@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> <4BFD3C73-937F-4D9D-94DA-4486DB706C03@me.com> , Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B43FAB0@mailsrv.imj.org.il> $10,000 in what kind of fees? Amalyah ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Bruce Wyman [bwyman at denverartmuseum.org] ??????: ????? ????? 06 ??? 2009 20:00 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes >In late 2008, we began publishing >our materials on Flickr, in relatively high image sizes. We also started >releasing information about our collections in ways that were easily >findable by researchers. In March of this year, my boss commented that >we had already generated somewhere in the order of $10,000 in fees - >just in the first three months of 2009! That's awesome. I agree with others here that the museum stranglehold on clinging to the desperate dreams of deep licensing revenue doesn't bear out in cost-analysis for *most* museums. Ken's also spot on to reference creative commons licensing and whoever else pointed out that Cory Doctorow's observation that he's selling more through cc licensing his work. There was a recent study which I can't find at the moment that people who most frequently shared music online were also the most frequent purchasers. It stands out as being a european observation, so I'm sure will instantly dismiss it here in America, but it was an interesting reference point. It seems that pretty consistently the real world is showing us the having a fairly open commons pays off financially (and philosophically). I'd rather spend time on creating stuff to help users rather than restrict them. -bw. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Bruce Wyman, Director of Technology Denver Art Museum / 100 W 14th Ave. Pkwy, Denver, CO 80204 office: 720.913.0159 / fax: 720.913.0002 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From akeshet at imj.org.il Wed May 6 10:54:04 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 20:54:04 +0300 Subject: [MCN-L] =?windows-1255?b?/v5SRTogIP7+UkU6ICBpbWFnZSBzaXplcw==?= In-Reply-To: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B43FAB0@mailsrv.imj.org.il> References: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B0E@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseu ms.Org><04EFDDC9208D114890720783D 4924BEB19752B92@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org> <4BFD3C73-937F-4D9D-94DA-4486DB706C03@me.com> , , <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B43FAB0@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B43FAB1@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Scratch that - I didn't realize Bruce was quoting Perian. (Hebrew-enabled Outlook Web Access renders everything backwards -- right to left. Don't ask.) We've also seen an upturn in income. Flickr is one way to market images, we've used other ways so far -- whatever works. Ironically, we recently helped a desperate client who was unable to get, after enormous effort, what they needed from another institution's image download site. They were so grateful for our help that they offered to help us market to other publishers. Sometimes, just giving really good service is the best marketing approach. And that has nothing to do with whether or how much one charges. Amalyah ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] ??????: ????? ????? 06 ??? 2009 20:18 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: [MCN-L] ??RE: image sizes $10,000 in what kind of fees? Amalyah ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Bruce Wyman [bwyman at denverartmuseum.org] ??????: ????? ????? 06 ??? 2009 20:00 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes >In late 2008, we began publishing >our materials on Flickr, in relatively high image sizes. We also started >releasing information about our collections in ways that were easily >findable by researchers. In March of this year, my boss commented that >we had already generated somewhere in the order of $10,000 in fees - >just in the first three months of 2009! That's awesome. I agree with others here that the museum stranglehold on clinging to the desperate dreams of deep licensing revenue doesn't bear out in cost-analysis for *most* museums. Ken's also spot on to reference creative commons licensing and whoever else pointed out that Cory Doctorow's observation that he's selling more through cc licensing his work. There was a recent study which I can't find at the moment that people who most frequently shared music online were also the most frequent purchasers. It stands out as being a european observation, so I'm sure will instantly dismiss it here in America, but it was an interesting reference point. It seems that pretty consistently the real world is showing us the having a fairly open commons pays off financially (and philosophically). I'd rather spend time on creating stuff to help users rather than restrict them. -bw. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Bruce Wyman, Director of Technology Denver Art Museum / 100 W 14th Ave. Pkwy, Denver, CO 80204 office: 720.913.0159 / fax: 720.913.0002 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From psully at magnes.org Wed May 6 10:55:59 2009 From: psully at magnes.org (Perian Sully) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:55:59 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] =?windows-1255?q?=FE=FERE=3A__image_sizes?= In-Reply-To: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B43FAB0@mailsrv.imj.org.il> References: <04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B0E@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org><04EFDDC9208D114890720783D4924BEB19752B92@EXCHANGE-4.Private.CarnegieMuseums.Org><4BFD3C73-937F-4D9D-94DA-4486DB706C03@me.com>, <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B43FAB0@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Message-ID: I think it's mostly use fees and production fees. Not so much in the way of rush fees, which is surprising (and a big source of revenue last year). There's a bit of a snowball effect happening where we've found that offering up images from one area or collection is causing publishers to ask about related materials. We do charge for that research time. On our website, we have switched our licensing from Copyright to a CC noncommercial-attribution-share alike license. We also clarify that researchers and educators wishing to use our images for their own personal use or in the classroom don't need to ask us permission to take the images, but it's nice to hear from them anyway and see how our assets are being used. This is how we learned that one of our Flickr projects, Jews in China, is actively being used by a classroom for study. Basically, we knew that we wanted to make sure researchers had full access, but we knew we didn't have the time (or, really, the inclination) to police our assets aggressively. Nor did we ever consider reproduction fees a significant source of revenue. Of the two, researcher use is far more important than retaining strict control over the materials. So we decided to just trust our audience to be responsible. So far, *knock on wood* the results are pretty positive. ~P Perian Sully Collections Information Manager Web Programs Strategist The Magnes Berkeley, CA -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:19 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: image sizes $10,000 in what kind of fees? Amalyah ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Bruce Wyman [bwyman at denverartmuseum.org] ??????: ????? ????? 06 ??? 2009 20:00 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes >In late 2008, we began publishing >our materials on Flickr, in relatively high image sizes. We also started >releasing information about our collections in ways that were easily >findable by researchers. In March of this year, my boss commented that >we had already generated somewhere in the order of $10,000 in fees - >just in the first three months of 2009! That's awesome. I agree with others here that the museum stranglehold on clinging to the desperate dreams of deep licensing revenue doesn't bear out in cost-analysis for *most* museums. Ken's also spot on to reference creative commons licensing and whoever else pointed out that Cory Doctorow's observation that he's selling more through cc licensing his work. There was a recent study which I can't find at the moment that people who most frequently shared music online were also the most frequent purchasers. It stands out as being a european observation, so I'm sure will instantly dismiss it here in America, but it was an interesting reference point. It seems that pretty consistently the real world is showing us the having a fairly open commons pays off financially (and philosophically). I'd rather spend time on creating stuff to help users rather than restrict them. -bw. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Bruce Wyman, Director of Technology Denver Art Museum / 100 W 14th Ave. Pkwy, Denver, CO 80204 office: 720.913.0159 / fax: 720.913.0002 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From psully at magnes.org Wed May 6 11:04:27 2009 From: psully at magnes.org (Perian Sully) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 11:04:27 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Digital Preservation and Nuclear Holocaust: An Animation Message-ID: Oh, the things that pop up on Twitter (I think Richard Urban was the first to tweet this...) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbBa6Oam7-w A cute animation about the (very) basics of digital preservation. Enjoy! Perian Sully Collections Information Manager Web Programs Strategist The Magnes 2911 Russell St. Berkeley, CA 94705 Work: 510-549-6950 x 357 Fax: 510-849-3673 http://www.magnes.org http://www.musematic.org http://www.mediaandtechnology.org From virginiarutledge at yahoo.com Wed May 6 11:22:51 2009 From: virginiarutledge at yahoo.com (Virginia Rutledge) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 11:22:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [MCN-L] =?utf-8?b?4oCP4oCPUkU6ICBSZSBpbWFnZSAndGhlZnQn?= Message-ID: <670741.27963.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Of course it's great to see CC put into the mix of this discussion! CC-NC licenses are one way to reserve the museum's right to commercial exploitation, where appropriate. But first comes the policy question, which for nonprofits really is the same as the business model question, isn't it? What rights are worth asserting, and on what grounds? CC Zero is a legal tool that enables waiver of rights (and thus is not a license per se). Some museums may find it appropriate to give up rights they don't want to assert ( realize some may find that controversial, and solicit feedback) and/or to proactively put out to the public certain images in which others may inappropriately assert rights. Such as, I would argue, any "straight" image of a work in the public domain to which image anyone claims copyright. Pulling in a comment from another thread, there are an increasing number of studies that suggest that some sharing builds sales. But this may be genre and content-specific, and there's just not a lot of data yet that an empiricist could love. Sharing experiences among this list is thus a very valuable thing. --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] wrote: From: Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: Re image 'theft' To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 10:13 AM Just to nitpick, a Creative Commons license is an assertion of copyright.? That is, it grants permission based on the assumption / fact / assertion that the work is protected by copyright.? For example, the "attribution, non-commercial, share alike" license asserts that the creator/copyright holder must be credited, it is limited to non-commercial uses based on the creator/copyright holder's exclusive rights, and on the same basis the creator/copyright holder can insist that the end user grant the same license on the new works he creates. (Virginia: jump in here before I bury myself any deeper.) . ? There is, however, now a CC0 ('CC Zero') license that is "may be used by anyone wishing to permanently surrender the copyright and database rights they may have in a work, thereby placing it as nearly as possible into the public domain" which speaks to what you're suggesting.? I wonder, however, if choosing this option would be a good business decision for a museum or even a matter of public responsibility.? I'm not saying it isn't -- I'm just? wondering.??? Amalyah ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Kenneth Hamma [khamma at me.com] ??????: ????? ????? 06 ??? 2009 19:10 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] Re image 'theft' The argument that I made was not intended to be based on a strict interpretation of copyright law but on public responsibility.? So, with respect to my note, most of this is beside the point and a restatement of traditional argument. I should have been clearer in my assertion of the business decision. The notion of copyright is indeed a legal matter.? Whether or not to assert copyright (not merely how much to charge) is, however, a business decision as there are numerous alternative courses for the creator.? Among these are a variety of? Creative Commons licensing schemes to a complete waiver of copyright. ken Kenneth Hamma +1 310 270 8008 khamma at me.com 368 Patel Place Palm Springs CA 92264 On May 6, 2009, at 3:40 AM, Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] wrote: > Just to stir the pot a bit: > > Not every museum or archive is a "public charity."? Even if that is > a particular museum's legal status, it doesn't affect the legal > application of copyright protection to any photographs it produces. > > The assertion of copyright in photographs (including "visual > surrogates") is indeed a legal matter.? It is a business decision > whether or not to charge money for licensing these images.? There is > a clear legal distinction between the photograph as a protectable > creation and the underlying object / work / subject that appears in > that photograph. > > As to "theft," yes it does happen, and yes it obviously and > logically results in a loss of potential income.? The question is, > how much, and does it matter in the end.? And the size of the image > certainly doesn't matter.? A small 72dpi image can be lifted and > used in advertising on a commercial website with no effort, > resulting in a loss of significant potential licensing income. This > is simple logic. And in this particular example, it's legally > simple:? it's copyright infringement, not "sharing."? "There is no > business model in stealing images" -- of course there is; I've run > into several, um, publishing establishments based on that business > model. > > The interesting issues are in the less blatant examples -- real > digital sharing, not commercial rip-off.? How do we deal with that? > Because we're not going to get anywhere by calling normative digital > activity, including sharing, "theft."? And some of our institutions > really do (sorry, Ken) depend on income from image licensing, among > other sources, to stay alive.? We need new business models.? We need > to figure out how to be Google:? how to not produce a product, not > to offer anything more than thin air (a platform, access, ranking, > ones-and-zeros) and yet to make billions, become the source of all > knowledge, and take over the world. > > > Amalyah Keshet > Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management > The Israel Museum, Jerusalem > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf > Of Kenneth Hamma > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:40 PM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Re image 'theft' > > Regardless the size of the imagined revenue loss, the notion of > 'theft' may not be entirely appropriate here, speaking only of > payment for IP licensing not payment for services or product. > Remember that the institutions mentioned so far operate as public > charities - receiving a tax benefit but also encumbered with certain > public- benefit responsibilities as a result.? And leaving aside > works still under copyright, for which we all have well known > obligations, as well as works that maintain vital roles in the > communities in which they were created, these collections consist of > natural specimens or creative works now in the public domain.? Who > in this scenario would be thieving from whom? > > For these works, the assertion of copyright in visual surrogates and > metadata is not a legal decision (so don't start with lawyers) but a > business decision that has on more than one occasion been described > purely as an effort to maintain monopoly control.? Is it possible to > square this with public charities managing public domain collections? > > ken > > > Kenneth Hamma > > +1 310 270 8008 > khamma at me.com > > 368 Patel Place > Palm Springs CA 92264 > > On May 5, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Proctor, Nancy wrote: > >> Thanks to Matt Morgan for raising the question of who has actually >> lost revenues from putting images, even high quality ones, online. I >> share his skepticism that it's actually as big a problem as we >> fear. I >> suspect that it will take less effort and fewer resources to deal >> with >> the small number of thefts that will arise than all the wringing of >> hands and hiring of lawyers for pre-emptive action that we currently >> engage in. >> >> We're discussing business models for the Smithsonian at the moment, >> so >> I added Matt's comments at this link: >> >> http://smithsonian-webstrategy.wikispaces.com/message/view/Business >> +Mo >> dels+W >> orkshop+Real-Time+Notes/11773461 >> >> This is a public wiki, so you're all welcome to participate in the >> conversation! >> >> Nancy >> >> Nancy Proctor >> Head of New Media Initiatives >> Smithsonian American Art Museum >> MRC 970 PO Box 37012 >> Washington DC 20013-7012 >> USA >> >> t: +1-202-633-8439 >> c: +1-301-642-6257 >> f: +1-202-633-8455 >> >> http://www.americanart.si.edu >> http://eyelevel.si.edu/ >> >> On 5/5/09 3:00 PM, "mcn-l-request at mcn.edu" >> wrote: >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Eric Johnson >>> Sent: Tue 5/5/2009 11:55 AM >>> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >>> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes >>> >>> Matt raises an interesting point: has anybody ever had any problems >>> with people "lifting" high-quality images of your collection without >>> seeking permission and making money with them (posters, t-shirts, >>> etc.)? >>> >>> The only thing I can think of off-hand is more in the vein of taking >>> print-quality images and using them in books without permission. >>> But >>> then again, I'm not familiar with any example of that actually >>> happening; it's just a worry passed down from higher-ups. >>> >>> But I'm curious about any specific examples of such unauthorized >>> reproduction that anybody might have. >>> >>> --E. >>> >>> Eric D. M. Johnson >>> Web Services Librarian >>> Jefferson Library, Monticello >>> P.O. Box 316 >>> Charlottesville, VA 22902 >>> Phone: (434) 984-7540 | Fax: (434) 984-7546 >>> http://www.monticello.org/library/ >>> ejohnson at monticello.org >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Morgan, Matt [mailto:matt.morgan at metmuseum.org] >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM >>> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >>> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes >>> >>> I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, >>> but don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining >>> like >>> crazy here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one >>> of my bugbears a little bit. >>> >>> We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a >>> significant, commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object >>> images. It just isn't done--there is no business model in stealing >>> images. Getting images of more than 1000px (from Flickr, for >>> example) >>> of our objects is a trivial matter, so it cannot be that increasing >>> image sizes on our own websites will make this problem materialize. >>> >>> I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all >>> face. >>> I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start >>> letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or >>> blowing them up until they're fuzzy. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Matt >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum >> Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) >> >> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu >> >> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l >> >> The MCN-L archives can be found at: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From akeshet at imj.org.il Wed May 6 12:11:05 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 22:11:05 +0300 Subject: [MCN-L] =?windows-1255?b?/v5SRTogIP7+UkU6ICBSZSBpbWFnZSAndGhlZnQn?= In-Reply-To: <670741.27963.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <670741.27963.qm@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D3B43FAB6@mailsrv.imj.org.il> I kind of like thinking of sharing as marketing by another name. (A less "traditional"one?) Both are an investment in developing an income-producing resource. And there are museums with a real need to develop the revenue-producing capabilities of their image (and other content) resources, in order to bring in more income, so that they can remain viable and fulfill their missions. Any and all ideas or models for how to do this should be welcome. Amalyah ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Virginia Rutledge [virginiarutledge at yahoo.com] ??????: ????? ????? 06 ??? 2009 21:22 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE: Re image 'theft' Of course it's great to see CC put into the mix of this discussion! CC-NC licenses are one way to reserve the museum's right to commercial exploitation, where appropriate. But first comes the policy question, which for nonprofits really is the same as the business model question, isn't it? What rights are worth asserting, and on what grounds? CC Zero is a legal tool that enables waiver of rights (and thus is not a license per se). Some museums may find it appropriate to give up rights they don't want to assert ( realize some may find that controversial, and solicit feedback) and/or to proactively put out to the public certain images in which others may inappropriately assert rights. Such as, I would argue, any "straight" image of a work in the public domain to which image anyone claims copyright. Pulling in a comment from another thread, there are an increasing number of studies that suggest that some sharing builds sales. But this may be genre and content-specific, and there's just not a lot of data yet that an empiricist could love. Sharing experiences among this list is thus a very valuable thing. --- On Wed, 5/6/09, Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] wrote: From: Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: Re image 'theft' To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 10:13 AM Just to nitpick, a Creative Commons license is an assertion of copyright. That is, it grants permission based on the assumption / fact / assertion that the work is protected by copyright. For example, the "attribution, non-commercial, share alike" license asserts that the creator/copyright holder must be credited, it is limited to non-commercial uses based on the creator/copyright holder's exclusive rights, and on the same basis the creator/copyright holder can insist that the end user grant the same license on the new works he creates. (Virginia: jump in here before I bury myself any deeper.) . There is, however, now a CC0 ('CC Zero') license that is "may be used by anyone wishing to permanently surrender the copyright and database rights they may have in a work, thereby placing it as nearly as possible into the public domain" which speaks to what you're suggesting. I wonder, however, if choosing this option would be a good business decision for a museum or even a matter of public responsibility. I'm not saying it isn't -- I'm just wondering. Amalyah ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Kenneth Hamma [khamma at me.com] ??????: ????? ????? 06 ??? 2009 19:10 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] Re image 'theft' The argument that I made was not intended to be based on a strict interpretation of copyright law but on public responsibility. So, with respect to my note, most of this is beside the point and a restatement of traditional argument. I should have been clearer in my assertion of the business decision. The notion of copyright is indeed a legal matter. Whether or not to assert copyright (not merely how much to charge) is, however, a business decision as there are numerous alternative courses for the creator. Among these are a variety of Creative Commons licensing schemes to a complete waiver of copyright. ken Kenneth Hamma +1 310 270 8008 khamma at me.com 368 Patel Place Palm Springs CA 92264 On May 6, 2009, at 3:40 AM, Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] wrote: > Just to stir the pot a bit: > > Not every museum or archive is a "public charity." Even if that is > a particular museum's legal status, it doesn't affect the legal > application of copyright protection to any photographs it produces. > > The assertion of copyright in photographs (including "visual > surrogates") is indeed a legal matter. It is a business decision > whether or not to charge money for licensing these images. There is > a clear legal distinction between the photograph as a protectable > creation and the underlying object / work / subject that appears in > that photograph. > > As to "theft," yes it does happen, and yes it obviously and > logically results in a loss of potential income. The question is, > how much, and does it matter in the end. And the size of the image > certainly doesn't matter. A small 72dpi image can be lifted and > used in advertising on a commercial website with no effort, > resulting in a loss of significant potential licensing income. This > is simple logic. And in this particular example, it's legally > simple: it's copyright infringement, not "sharing." "There is no > business model in stealing images" -- of course there is; I've run > into several, um, publishing establishments based on that business > model. > > The interesting issues are in the less blatant examples -- real > digital sharing, not commercial rip-off. How do we deal with that? > Because we're not going to get anywhere by calling normative digital > activity, including sharing, "theft." And some of our institutions > really do (sorry, Ken) depend on income from image licensing, among > other sources, to stay alive. We need new business models. We need > to figure out how to be Google: how to not produce a product, not > to offer anything more than thin air (a platform, access, ranking, > ones-and-zeros) and yet to make billions, become the source of all > knowledge, and take over the world. > > > Amalyah Keshet > Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management > The Israel Museum, Jerusalem > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf > Of Kenneth Hamma > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:40 PM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Re image 'theft' > > Regardless the size of the imagined revenue loss, the notion of > 'theft' may not be entirely appropriate here, speaking only of > payment for IP licensing not payment for services or product. > Remember that the institutions mentioned so far operate as public > charities - receiving a tax benefit but also encumbered with certain > public- benefit responsibilities as a result. And leaving aside > works still under copyright, for which we all have well known > obligations, as well as works that maintain vital roles in the > communities in which they were created, these collections consist of > natural specimens or creative works now in the public domain. Who > in this scenario would be thieving from whom? > > For these works, the assertion of copyright in visual surrogates and > metadata is not a legal decision (so don't start with lawyers) but a > business decision that has on more than one occasion been described > purely as an effort to maintain monopoly control. Is it possible to > square this with public charities managing public domain collections? > > ken > > > Kenneth Hamma > > +1 310 270 8008 > khamma at me.com > > 368 Patel Place > Palm Springs CA 92264 > > On May 5, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Proctor, Nancy wrote: > >> Thanks to Matt Morgan for raising the question of who has actually >> lost revenues from putting images, even high quality ones, online. I >> share his skepticism that it's actually as big a problem as we >> fear. I >> suspect that it will take less effort and fewer resources to deal >> with >> the small number of thefts that will arise than all the wringing of >> hands and hiring of lawyers for pre-emptive action that we currently >> engage in. >> >> We're discussing business models for the Smithsonian at the moment, >> so >> I added Matt's comments at this link: >> >> http://smithsonian-webstrategy.wikispaces.com/message/view/Business >> +Mo >> dels+W >> orkshop+Real-Time+Notes/11773461 >> >> This is a public wiki, so you're all welcome to participate in the >> conversation! >> >> Nancy >> >> Nancy Proctor >> Head of New Media Initiatives >> Smithsonian American Art Museum >> MRC 970 PO Box 37012 >> Washington DC 20013-7012 >> USA >> >> t: +1-202-633-8439 >> c: +1-301-642-6257 >> f: +1-202-633-8455 >> >> http://www.americanart.si.edu >> http://eyelevel.si.edu/ >> >> On 5/5/09 3:00 PM, "mcn-l-request at mcn.edu" >> wrote: >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Eric Johnson >>> Sent: Tue 5/5/2009 11:55 AM >>> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >>> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes >>> >>> Matt raises an interesting point: has anybody ever had any problems >>> with people "lifting" high-quality images of your collection without >>> seeking permission and making money with them (posters, t-shirts, >>> etc.)? >>> >>> The only thing I can think of off-hand is more in the vein of taking >>> print-quality images and using them in books without permission. >>> But >>> then again, I'm not familiar with any example of that actually >>> happening; it's just a worry passed down from higher-ups. >>> >>> But I'm curious about any specific examples of such unauthorized >>> reproduction that anybody might have. >>> >>> --E. >>> >>> Eric D. M. Johnson >>> Web Services Librarian >>> Jefferson Library, Monticello >>> P.O. Box 316 >>> Charlottesville, VA 22902 >>> Phone: (434) 984-7540 | Fax: (434) 984-7546 >>> http://www.monticello.org/library/ >>> ejohnson at monticello.org >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Morgan, Matt [mailto:matt.morgan at metmuseum.org] >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM >>> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >>> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes >>> >>> I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, >>> but don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining >>> like >>> crazy here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one >>> of my bugbears a little bit. >>> >>> We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a >>> significant, commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object >>> images. It just isn't done--there is no business model in stealing >>> images. Getting images of more than 1000px (from Flickr, for >>> example) >>> of our objects is a trivial matter, so it cannot be that increasing >>> image sizes on our own websites will make this problem materialize. >>> >>> I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all >>> face. >>> I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start >>> letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or >>> blowing them up until they're fuzzy. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Matt >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum >> Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) >> >> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu >> >> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l >> >> The MCN-L archives can be found at: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From evesinaiko at earthlink.net Wed May 6 12:39:34 2009 From: evesinaiko at earthlink.net (Eve Sinaiko) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 15:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [MCN-L] =?utf-8?b?4oCP4oCPUkU6ICDigI/igI9SRTogIFJlIGltYWdlICd0?= =?utf-8?q?heft=27?= Message-ID: <7690214.1241638774734.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Further to the discussion of image licensing and CC, the flip side of it is the Plus Coalition, which has presented at MCN I think several times. I imagine most of you have seen this recent announcement from PLUS: http://www2.adbase.com/view/?c=30937677&i=3280 I'd be interested in the range of views about this initiative from the museum and image user communities. Regards, Eve Sinaiko Director of Publications College Art Association From lesleyeharris at comcast.net Thu May 7 08:35:57 2009 From: lesleyeharris at comcast.net (Lesley Ellen Harris) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 11:35:57 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Copyright Quiz 2.0 In-Reply-To: <6833838A-9ADB-4452-A73E-564F45B1B9A6@comcast.net> References: <6833838A-9ADB-4452-A73E-564F45B1B9A6@comcast.net> Message-ID: If you want to test your international copyright law knowledge, I urge you to try the 10 question true or false quiz at www.copyrightlawscom.blogspot.com . If international copyright law interests you, SLA has an online course on this beginning May 18, 2009. See www.clickuniversity.com. Lesley Lesley Ellen Harris lesley at copyrightlaws.com www.copyrightanswers.blogspot.com From twagoner at artsmia.org Thu May 7 10:38:42 2009 From: twagoner at artsmia.org (Treden Wagoner) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 12:38:42 -0500 Subject: [MCN-L] Minneapolis Institute of Arts and Walker Art Center launch new ArtsConnectEd Web site Message-ID: <4A02D65202000015001485F0@MIA1.artsmia.org> ArtsConnectEd Beta launched in Beta on May 4 The new ArtsConnectEd, http://artsconnected.org, is completely redesigned as a dynamic and social Web site that empowers teachers, students, and museum educators in the creation and sharing of content and ideas in the process of learning about art. The new Art Finder offers an intuitive and powerful interface to the combined collections of the Minneapolis Institute of Arts (MIA) and Walker Art Center (WAC), encouraging both wide exploration and in-depth research. Users can browse over 90,000 works of art, watch and listen to more than 1,000 video and audio records, and read thousands of articles and object labels. All of these resources can be collected and arranged as interactive presentations for personal or classroom use, which can in turn be published for others to use. ArtsConnectEd also allows users to enhance their presentations with video and photos from services such as Flickr, YouTube, and the new ArtBabble video site. This new resource is the result of over two years of amazing work by the ArtsConnectEd partnership team, combining new media and education staff from the MIA and WAC with project management by Sandbox Studios and funding from an IMLS National Leadership Grant. It's been an incredible collaboration both cross-institutionally and cross-departmentally but special credit needs to be given to Nate Solas and Brent Gustafson as lead software developers for this project. The beta version of the software will be refined during the summer. Educators from both museums will continue to build new content as we prepare for the major launch of the complete site in time for the start of the new school year (September 2009). If you haven?t already done so, go to http://.artsconnected.org and take a look! Be sure to send us your feedback. We would love to hear from you. You can use the Feedback link at the top of any page within the site or send comments directly to Treden Wagoner at twagoner at artsmia.org. Thank you, The Project Co-Directors Treden Wagoner, Technology and Training Specialist, Minneapolis Institute of Arts, twagoner at artsmia.org Susan Rotilie, Programs Manager, School Programs, Walker Art Center, susan.Rotilie at walkerart.org From dianezorich at comcast.net Fri May 8 06:44:43 2009 From: dianezorich at comcast.net (Diane M. Zorich) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 09:44:43 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Fwd: VRA Intellectual Property Rights News: April 2009 Message-ID: >Thread-Topic: VRA Intellectual Property Rights News: April 2009 >Thread-Index: AQHJygZSnJBXD3GAnkunMa7uW/8usg== >Accept-Language: en-US >acceptlanguage: en-US >Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:41:25 -0400 >Reply-To: Visual Resources Association >Sender: Visual Resources Association >From: Jennifer Green >Subject: VRA Intellectual Property Rights News: April 2009 >To: VRA-L at LISTSERV.UARK.EDU >List-Help: , > >List-Unsubscribe: >List-Subscribe: >List-Owner: >List-Archive: >X-ELNK-Received-Info: spv=0; >X-ELNK-AV: 0 >X-ELNK-Info: sbv=0; sbrc=.0; sbf=00; sbw=000; > >IPR-In the News >Compiled by Jen Green, Massachusetts College of Art + Design >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Piracy Puts Film Online One Month Before Open >by Brian Stelter, The New York Times, April 1, 2009 >http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/media/02film.html > >"In a case of piracy that some analysts called unprecedented, untold >thousands of people watched a version of "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" >online Wednesday, a full month before its scheduled theater release." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Court Rules Part of Copyright Act Unconstitutional >by Mike Masnick, Techdirt, April 3, 2009 >http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090403/1619494384.shtml > >"A year and a half ago, we were quite surprised when the 10th >Circuit Court of Appeals actually sided with Larry Lessig, >concerning how a part of copyright law that pulled foreign works out >of the public domain was potentially unconstitutional. This was in >the "Golan case," the third of three big copyright cases Lessig had >championed. The appeals court had sent the case back to the lower >court, and that lower court has now decided that, indeed, a trade >agreement (URAA) that pulled foreign content out of the public >domain is unconstitutional as it violates theFirst Amendment." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Google's Plan for Out-of-Print Books Challenged >by Miguel Helft, The New York Times, April 3, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/daobe9 > >"Now millions of orphan books may get a new legal guardian. Google >has been scanning the pages of those books and others as part of its >plan to bring a digital library and bookstore, unprecedented in >scope, to computer screens across the United States." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Digital Rights Groups Urge Obama to Diversify Appointees >by Wendy Davis, MediaPost News, April 3, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/c2ty8d > >"A coalition including prominent digital rights advocates wrote to >President Barack Obama Thursday to express concern about the >appointment of former entertainment industry lawyers to key >Department of Justice positions. The groups asked that future >appointments to positions related to intellectual property policy >'reflect the diversity of stakeholders' affected by such policy." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Can I Legally Publish My Own Photo? >by Lincoln Specter, PC World, April 6, 2009 >http://www.pcworld.com/article/162509/can_i_legally_publish_my_photo.html > >"'If you take a photograph in a public place, and then publish it >commercially, can the people in the photo successfully sue?' That's >a complex issue, with quite a few shades of grey. I talked with >technology lawyer TateStickles to get a handle on the issues >involved. 'Any picture you take, you own the copyright to,' Stickles >told me, 'but it gets muddled when you put it to commercial use.'" >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Congress Looks Abroad to Curb Piracy >by Stephanie Condon, CNET News, April 6, 2009 >http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10213367-38.html > >"One week after the 20th Century Fox film was found on the Internet, >the House of Representatives Committee on Foreign Affairs held a >hearing in Los Angeles to hear from industry representatives about >how to address piracy." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >World Copyright Summit June 9&10 2009 - DC >Copyrightlaws.com, April 7, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/c5juhm > >"Copyrightlaws.com is a media partner for the upcoming World >Copyright Summit in Washington DC in June. This is an international >forum that brings together those directly involved in creative >industries to openly debate the future of copyright and the >distribution of creative works in the digital era. It is organized >by CISAC, the International Confederation of Societies of Authors >and Composers." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >U.S. Offers Peek at Proposed Copyright Treaty >by Stephanie Condon, CNET News, April 7, 2009 >http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10213934-38.html > >"After months of secrecy that has rankled public interest groups, >the Obama administration is revealing limited information regarding >a multilateral anti-counterfeiting treaty currently under >negotiation." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Plan to Curb Internet Piracy Advances in France >by Kevin J. O'Brien, The New York Times, April 8, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/dmgcyp > >"French lawmakers are poised to approve a law to create the world's >first surveillance system for Internet piracy, one that would force >Internet service providers in some cases to disconnect customers >accused of making illegal downloads." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Higher-Ed Groups Challenge Google Book Project Over 'Orphans' >by Steve Kolowich, Chronicle of Higher Education: Wired Campus, April 8, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/c9cmmq > >"Nearly six months after Google, the Authors Guild, and the >Association of American Publishers settled a legal battle over >Google's campaign to scan books into a vast digital database, it >appears as though certain elements in higher education have begun to >stir the controversy anew." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Copyright and the First Amendment >by Mike Masnick, Techdirt, April 10, 2009 >http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090406/1527374409.shtml > >"There is a growing number of scholars questioning how to align the >First Amendment's rule that 'Congress shall make no law... abridging >the freedom of speech....' with intellectual property law that often >does, in fact, abridge freedoms of speech." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Richard Prince, Gagosian Respond to Copyright Suit >ArtInfo.com, April 10, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/dcjbth > >"Richard Prince and his dealer Larry Gagosian have responded to a >copyright-infringement suit filed by French photographer Patrick >Cariou, saying that Prince's use of Cariou's work falls under "fair >use," the Art Newspaper reports." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Statutory Damages in Copyright Law: Samuelson & Wheatland's Article >Provides Copyright Debate Context and Reform Solutions >posted By Alex Curtis, Public Knowledge, April 10, 2009 >http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/2089 > >"Today, Prof. Pam Samuelson and co-author Tara Wheatland have >published a draft of an article that puts forth the need for >copyright reform, specifically to statutory damages. I have to >confess I'm still digesting it, but I wanted to put this post up so >others could learn about it and comment." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Germany: Bild Publisher Wants Websites to Pay for News >by Ben Fenton and Gerrit Wiesmann, FT.com, April 12, 2009 >http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8442213e-278c-11de-9b77-00144feabdc0.html > >"One of Europe's largest newspaper publishers has lent its voice to >the call for internet news aggregators such as Google to pay for >using copyright material." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Emerging Issues Related To International Digital Copyright Protection >by Alain Megias, Internet Business Law Services, April 14, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/dh8wfx > >"International electronic commerce has certain implications on >Intellectual Property rights, and, in reaction, an adequate and >effective international legal framework is being implemented which >helps to deter fraud and the theft of intellectual property and to >provide effective legal recourse when these crimes occur. As a >consequence, e-businesses eager to take advantage of the upcoming >digital technologies must pay attention to this legislative >evolution, which follows the adoption of WIPO treaties, in the EU as >well as in the US." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >UK: Copyright Term Extension Stalls >by Andre Paine, Billboard.biz, April 14, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/c4xg6f > >"The U.K. government had altered its position from no change, and >given its backing to the increase of copyright term from 50 to 70 >years (the original European Commission plan had been for a 95-year >term). But several countries were still blocking the directive when >it was discussed again last week." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >After Police Confiscate His Computer, Boston College Student Fights Back >by Jeffrey R. Young, Chronicle of Higher Education: Wired Campus, >April 15, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/cj8w6q > >"A Boston College undergraduate has asked a judge in Massachusetts >to invalidate a search warrant issued to the police last month that >led to the seizure of the student's computers, iPod, cellphone, >digital camera, and other electronic devices." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Open Rights Slams Copyright >by Stephen Eddie, Music Week, April 15, 2009. >http://www.musicweek.com/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=1037511&c=1 > >"The UK has the worst copyright laws 'by far' according to a survey >carried out by Consumer Focus and digital rights campaigners the >Open Rights Group." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >South Korea Fits Itself for a "3 strikes" Jackboot >by Nate Anderson, Ars Technica, April 15, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/bu2rye > >"South Korea adopts one of the toughest 'three strikes' laws against >Internet copyright infringers, giving the government power to >disconnect users, but also to shutdown websites that host a few >infringing files. User-generated content sites are running scared." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Obama, Reagan and Tea Party Copyright Infringement >by Gene Quinn, IP Watchdog, April 17, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/ddpufd > >"After the AP brought a counterclaim against Fairey, Fairey is now >claiming that the AP violated his copyright in the poster because >they have copied that in news reports. Fairey is getting shockingly >bad legal advice, and his attorneys are obviously more interested in >grandstanding than in representing their client. There is zero >percent chance that the AP will be found to >violate Fairey's rights. " >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Swedish File-Sharers Convicted >by Eric Pfanner, The New York Times, April 18, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/cktgoo > >"The music and movie industries celebrated a high-profile victory in >their campaign to curb online piracy on Friday when a Swedish court >convicted and imposed prison sentences to four men linked to the >notorious Internet file-sharing service The Pirate Bay." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Fair Use, Turnitin, And... Why Google Never Should Have Caved On Book Scanning >by techdirt, April 20, 2009 >http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090420/0207284556.shtml > >"Last year, we wrote about a district court decision that noted >iParadigm's popular Turnitin plagiarism checker service wasn't >violating copyright by adding every student's paper to its database, >noting that this was fair use. Wired points out that an appeals >court has upheld this ruling and links to ThomasO'Toole's quick >summary of why this is fair use: > >The court stepped through the fair use analysis, dropping positive >notes here (commercial uses can be fair uses), here (a use can >betransformative "in function or purpose without altering or >actually adding to the original work," citing Perfect 10 Inc. v. >Amazon.com Inc.), and here (fact thatturnitin .com used the entirety >of the plaintiff's work did not preclude finding of fair use). And >it turned back a lot of other, small-bore challenges to the district >court's fair use finding." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >PirateBay's Sunde calls for fundamental changes to copyright >posted by Richard Koman, ZDNet, April 20th, 2009 >http://government.zdnet.com/?p=4645 > >"The Pirate Bay is not a piracy operation but rather a >"semi-political group" and an "art project," Pirate Bay cofounder >Peter Sunde told the Globe and Mail's Matt Hartley in a >post-conviction interview. "It's a bit of everything." Sunde went on >to make an interesting argument about the place of copyright in the >evolving century: It's a law that now serves chiefly to >enrichmegacorporations at the expense of the community." >EU Lawmaker Confident of Music Copyright Deal >by Huw Jones, Reuters, Guardian.co.uk, April 21, 2009 >http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/8466027 > >"A deal that will win over a blocking minority among European Union >member states and extend copyright for musicians and producers in >the EU is close to being agreed, a senior lawmaker said on Tuesday." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Pirate Bay Case on Its Way to Court of Appeal >by Mikael Ricknds, PC World, April 21, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/c53nss > >"A lawyer for one of the defendants in the Pirate Bay case has >already filed an appeal against the guilty verdict handed down by a >Stockholm court on Friday, and lawyers for the other three >defendants are gearing up to do the same." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >EU States, Lawmakers on Internet Collision Course >by Huw Jones, Reuters, April 21, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/c7bxbq > >"European Union states headed for a collision course with the bloc's >parliament on Tuesday as a spat over how to tackle illegal downloads >threatened a wider telecom reform." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >PK Tells Copyright Office: Technology will enable the blind to >access more information >by Rashmi Rangnath, Public Knowledge, April 22, 2009 >http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/2110 > >"For the blind and the visually impaired access to information is >not easy. Works have to be converted to special formats to enable >access. Because copyrights are implicated during the process, >copyright law provides certain exceptions enabling the creation of >accessible formats." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Blog: Reuters and Politico Challenge Online Copyright Breaches with >New Consortium >Posted by Laura Oliver, Journalism.co.uk, April 22, 2009 >http://www.journalism.co.uk/2/articles/534132.php > >"News organisations including Reuters and Politico have teamed up >with Attributor to create a new group aimed at protecting >publishers' copyright online." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >The Pirate Bay case: Not necessarily a victory for Hollywood >by Tom Sullivan, The Christian Science Monitor, April 22, 2009 >http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0422/p06s01-woeu.html?page=1 > >"Last week's conviction of the founders of The Pirate Bay did not >shut down the filesharing website. Instead, it has boosted the ranks >of its supporters and raised awareness of an ideological and legal >battle for control of how the Internet is used." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >EU Votes for Longer Music Copyright >by Andrew Orlowski, The Register, April 23, 2009 >http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/23/europe_music_copyright_term/ > >"The European Parliament has voted 377 to 178 in favour of extended >the copyright term for new sound recordings from 50 to 70 years. >It's only a first reading, but it's a strong indication of approval >for the bill, introduced by IrishMEP Brian Cowley." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Copyright Lawsuit Allowed To Proceed Against YouTube >by Wendy Davis, MediaPost News, April 23, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/cmhqsq > >"A federal appellate court has rebuffed a request from Google's >YouTube to dismiss a copyright infringement lawsuit on the narrow >ground that the plaintiff in the case, videographer Robert Tur, >voluntarily withdrew the lawsuit in order to join a pending >class-action in New York." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Internet Archive Wants In on Google Settlement >by Jennifer Howard, Chronicle of Higher Education: Wired Campus, >April 21, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/cbljpf > >"The Internet Archive wants to be part of Google's settlement with >the Authors Guild over the Google Book Search program. In a letter >posted on the Web site of the Open Content Alliance, a joint library >repository managed by the archive, the group's lawyers asked the >judge in the case for permission to file a motion to join the >proceedings as a "party defendant." > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Steinbeck Heirs Seek to Slow Google Books Settlement >by Miguel Helft, New York Times: Bits, April 27, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/cs2wgh > >"A group of authors and the heirs of others, including >representatives of the estate of John Steinbeck, and of the musician >Arlo Guthrie, are asking a federal judge to delay by four months the >deadline for authors to decide whether or not to participate in the >settlement of a landmark class-action lawsuit against Google." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >The Internet Archive Cannot Join Google Suit, Judge Says >by Jennifer Howard, Chronicle of Higher Education: Wired Campus, >April 28, 2009 >http://tinyurl.com/cocrgc > >"The federal judge in charge of the Google Book Search settlement >has shot down the Internet Archive's request to join the case, >Publishers Weekly reported today. The archive had hoped to take >advantage of the copyright-liability protections built into the >settlement for its own book-digitizing work, and it still may file >an amicus brief by the court's May 5 deadline for objections and >comments, according to the report." > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Many thanks to all of our VRA-IPR members who are monitoring >multiple listservs to make this IPR news posting possible. Please >submit any comments, questions, or suggestions to Jen Green at >jen.green at massart.edu -- Diane M. Zorich 113 Gallup Road Princeton, NJ 08542 USA Voice: 609-252-1606 Email: dzorich at mindspring.com or dianezorich at comcast.net From dianezorich at comcast.net Mon May 11 04:46:00 2009 From: dianezorich at comcast.net (Diane M. Zorich) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 07:46:00 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Portland Message-ID: FYI -- Given that the MCN 2009 conference is in Portland, those planning to attend might want to check out this Sunday's Travel section of the NY Times, which features "frugal Portland" (http://travel.nytimes.com/). Some interesting highlights: free (and good) beer at a local store (to encourage shopping) and the best steaks in town are apparently at a strip joint (I won't make the obvious pun here....) Also, some good tips for those seeking a more sedate experience. Diane -- Diane M. Zorich 113 Gallup Road Princeton, NJ 08542 USA Voice: 609-252-1606 Email: dzorich at mindspring.com or dianezorich at comcast.net From psully at magnes.org Mon May 11 07:37:04 2009 From: psully at magnes.org (Perian Sully) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 07:37:04 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Portland In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had the pleasure of going to another convention in Portland a couple of years ago and I can't express how lovely and wonderful the city is. Powell's Books is a must-go (leave room in your suitcase. Seriously). There are great eats all over the place and the nightlife is active. Can't wait for MCN this year! Perian Sully Collections Information Manager Web Programs Strategist The Magnes Berkeley, CA -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Diane M. Zorich Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 4:46 AM To: mcn-l at toronto.mediatrope.com Subject: [MCN-L] Portland FYI -- Given that the MCN 2009 conference is in Portland, those planning to attend might want to check out this Sunday's Travel section of the NY Times, which features "frugal Portland" (http://travel.nytimes.com/). Some interesting highlights: free (and good) beer at a local store (to encourage shopping) and the best steaks in town are apparently at a strip joint (I won't make the obvious pun here....) Also, some good tips for those seeking a more sedate experience. Diane -- Diane M. Zorich 113 Gallup Road Princeton, NJ 08542 USA Voice: 609-252-1606 Email: dzorich at mindspring.com or dianezorich at comcast.net _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From B.Nederveen at rijksmuseum.nl Mon May 11 08:44:08 2009 From: B.Nederveen at rijksmuseum.nl (Bas Nederveen) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 17:44:08 +0200 Subject: [MCN-L] Where did it start? / first audio In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1417924BB841B14C98A90E1C1569C0A30D43FD058C@S-MAIL-1.rijksmuseum.intra> Dear All, I came across a related article which might be of interest to you: H.J. van Zwolle, 'De geluidsinstallatie in de David R?ellzaal', Bulletin van het Rijksmuseum 18 (1970), p. 146-150. Even though this article is not specifically about audio guides, I thought it might still be of interest to some of you. The article presents the "unique sound reproducing set" that was installed in the auditorium of the Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam in 1969. Thanks to this "revolutionary" audio device visitors could listen to the spoken word accompanying slide shows or films in their own language (probably up to 10 different languages) via headphones. Cheers, Bas [MCN-L] Where did it start? / first audio guide Loic Tallon loic.tallon at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 11:42:34 PDT 2009 * Previous message: [MCN-L] Where did it start? / first audio guide * Next message: [MCN-L] Survey on Computer-Based Exhibits, closing soon * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] ________________________________ I've been asked about a translation of the Dutch commentary. I believe it is as follows: 'This is not a meeting for the hard-of-hearing. Rather these people are visitors of the Amsterdam Stedelijk museum, who are being guided in a special, modern way. Via a hearing-aid/listening-device, they are given explanations and are guided to the different artworks. The spoken text is recorded in various different languages onto a so-called 'tape-recorder'. [French language audio] The audio from the magnetic tape goes via an amplifier to a ring-wire/antenna that is located along the baseboard/skirting of the galleries. The broadcast that comes from the ring-wire, makes it possible to pick-up the spoken word through a simple hearing aid with built in reel/spool, without disturbing the peace in the museum. The earplugs are being carefully disinfected every time after use. Every visitor now receives such a device, and follows via the ingenious system the directions and indication of an invisible guide. [Voice of guide; "Here we are standing in front of one of the incredulous falsifications by 'van Megeren' of Vermeer. The holes in the canvas are imputed to the forceful attempts by van Megeren to give the canvas an 'old' look. And if you all look to the right, at the original drawing of van Megeren, you will also see that there is great similarity between this head and that of the Christ-figure in the so-called Vermeer. And now we move on to the next example."] This dutch scoop in this way of guiding, has generated interest abroad." 2009/4/27 Lenore Sarasan >: > I thought your name was familiar. It's a great name. What is it? Where > else have you given the talk? Also, I recently did an in-depth analysis of > the Antenna Audio tour and the catalogue for the Frida Kahlo show that was > at the SFMOMA in the fall. If you're interested in my analysis, email me > off-line and give me a number where I can call you. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Loic > Tallon > Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:12 AM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Where did it start? / first audio guide > > That was me who gave that presentation! > Its just that I've only recently found the footage online so can share > it better. (I had limited copyright premissions for the original disc > copy I owned). > > Its great you enjoyed the presentation so much though!! :-) > > > Thanks, > Loic. > > > 2009/4/27 Lenore Sarasan >: >> Two years ago the Museums Association held a 1-day presentation at the > Tate >> Modern sponsored by Antenna Audio. The first presentation was absolutely >> remarkable and gave the entire history of audio tours and included this >> footage. I can't remember the guy's name who gave the talk but it was one >> of the best sessions I ever attended. Contact the MA and I'm sure they > can >> give you the details. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of > Loic >> Tallon >> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 8:21 AM >> To: mcn-l at mcn.edu >> Subject: [MCN-L] Where did it start? / first audio guide >> >> Dear all. >> >> I dug this out for a blog post on Musematic, and thought I'd share it >> here too. It's a link to a piece of Dutch news footage from 1952 >> about (what I think was) the world's first audio guide. >> I particularly like the commentator's emphasis of the words 'tape >> recorder', the latest in new technologies! >> >> See http://www.snipurl.com/stedelijk >> >> >> Cheers, >> Loic. >> >> >> -- >> Freelance researcher / designer >> Co-Editor, 'Digital Technologies and the Museum Experience' (Alta Mira >> Press, August 2008). >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer >> Network (http://www.mcn.edu) >> >> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu >> >> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l >> >> The MCN-L archives can be found at: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ >> >> -- >> This message was scanned by ESVA and is believed to be clean. >> Click here to report this message as spam. >> http://gate.willo.com/cgi-bin/learn-msg.cgi?id=CB9F827EE1.98CBD >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer > Network (http://www.mcn.edu) >> >> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu >> >> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l >> >> The MCN-L archives can be found at: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ >> > > > > -- > E: loic.tallon at gmail.com > W: www.loictallon.com > > Please check-out my new book, 'Digital Technologies and the Museum > Experience' (Alta Mira Press, August 2008). > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer > Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > -- > This message was scanned by ESVA and is believed to be clean. > Click here to report this message as spam. > http://gate.willo.com/cgi-bin/learn-msg.cgi?id=6539727EE1.09F4A > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > size=2 width="100%" align=center> * Previous message: [MCN-L] Where did it start? / first audio guide * Next message: [MCN-L] Survey on Computer-Based Exhibits, closing soon * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] ________________________________ More information about the mcn-l mailing list -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] Namens mcn-l-request at mcn.edu Verzonden: woensdag 6 mei 2009 21:00 Aan: mcn-l at mcn.edu Onderwerp: mcn-l Digest, Vol 44, Issue 7 Send mcn-l mailing list submissions to mcn-l at mcn.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mcn-l-request at mcn.edu You can reach the person managing the list at mcn-l-owner at mcn.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of mcn-l digest..." From psully at magnes.org Mon May 11 10:35:05 2009 From: psully at magnes.org (Perian Sully) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 10:35:05 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Looking for a New Webblast/Email/Metrics Service Message-ID: >From our Development Director. Anyone have any suggestions? We will be migrating our website to Drupal "soon", and I would think that some sort of integrated email marketing tool with metrics functionality would be of particular use here. Thoughts about that would also be helpful. Thanks! **** I am looking to switch our service, for the primary reason that I am concerned that our db has grown "stale".. we are still using the tools I set in place five years ago, and I am worried that there may be those who are not getting mail just cuz the app, known address format are OLD, etc... Also, I want a better look-and-feel and an easier back-end user interface to hand all this over to Faith, with an eye on her doing reports of opens and clicks, users and interests, etc. There's actually a lot of functionality, in terms of tracking with Topica and I do not want to lose that moving forward (not being leveraged well enough now). can you please blast a question to your peeps, about bulk email services and tools with an eye on metrics and reports? Also, I want to start list sharing with other local and national orgs. to build the list. Anything you can get re: issues and case scenarios'd be greatly appreciated. **** Perian Sully Collections Information Manager Web Programs Strategist The Magnes Berkeley, CA From mark at matienzo.org Mon May 11 10:49:03 2009 From: mark at matienzo.org (Mark A. Matienzo) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 13:49:03 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Looking for a New Webblast/Email/Metrics Service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you're migrating to Drupal, I'd suggest looking at CiviCRM as it integrates nicely with Drupal. Sugar CRM might be another possibility. Mark A. Matienzo Applications Developer, Digital Experience Group The New York Public Library On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Perian Sully wrote: > >From our Development Director. Anyone have any suggestions? We will be > migrating our website to Drupal "soon", and I would think that some sort > of integrated email marketing tool with metrics functionality would be > of particular use here. Thoughts about that would also be helpful. > > Thanks! > > **** > I am looking to switch our service, for the primary reason that I am > concerned that our db has grown "stale".. we are still using the tools I > set in place five years ago, and I am worried that there may be those > who are not getting mail just cuz the app, known address format are OLD, > etc... > > Also, I want a better look-and-feel and an easier back-end user > interface to hand all this over to Faith, with an eye on her doing > reports of opens and clicks, users and interests, etc. > > There's actually a lot of functionality, in terms of tracking with > Topica and I do not want to lose that moving forward (not being > leveraged well enough now). > > can you please blast a question to your peeps, about bulk email services > and tools with an eye on metrics and reports? ?Also, I want to start > list sharing with other local and national orgs. to build the list. > Anything you can get re: issues and case scenarios'd be greatly > appreciated. > **** > > Perian Sully > Collections Information Manager > Web Programs Strategist > The Magnes > Berkeley, CA > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > From aridavidow at gmail.com Mon May 11 10:50:39 2009 From: aridavidow at gmail.com (Ari Davidow) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 13:50:39 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Looking for a New Webblast/Email/Metrics Service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <747cfaf50905111050n3fa27d52kc23c1a1e9c048088@mail.gmail.com> I am not fond of Constant Contact, but it is true, at least, that it meant that we could create some simple templates and have none technical staff prepare mailings without any further support from web staff. I don't know of tools that integrate with Drupal, per se, other than CiviCRM--and I'm not sure that's good enough on the non-technical user side for what you describe. ari On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Perian Sully wrote: > >From our Development Director. Anyone have any suggestions? We will be > migrating our website to Drupal "soon", and I would think that some sort > of integrated email marketing tool with metrics functionality would be > of particular use here. Thoughts about that would also be helpful. > > Thanks! > > **** > I am looking to switch our service, for the primary reason that I am > concerned that our db has grown "stale".. we are still using the tools I > set in place five years ago, and I am worried that there may be those > who are not getting mail just cuz the app, known address format are OLD, > etc... > > Also, I want a better look-and-feel and an easier back-end user > interface to hand all this over to Faith, with an eye on her doing > reports of opens and clicks, users and interests, etc. > > There's actually a lot of functionality, in terms of tracking with > Topica and I do not want to lose that moving forward (not being > leveraged well enough now). > > can you please blast a question to your peeps, about bulk email services > and tools with an eye on metrics and reports? ?Also, I want to start > list sharing with other local and national orgs. to build the list. > Anything you can get re: issues and case scenarios'd be greatly > appreciated. > **** > > Perian Sully > Collections Information Manager > Web Programs Strategist > The Magnes > Berkeley, CA > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > From FThomson at ashevilleart.org Mon May 11 11:16:01 2009 From: FThomson at ashevilleart.org (Frank E. Thomson) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 14:16:01 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Looking for a New Webblast/Email/Metrics Service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6905D9194DC5B6489FA18E7E0763D974086E0F685C@server4.ashart.local> Look at constant contact we use it and have had very good luck with it. Frank E. Thomson, Curator Asheville Art Museum PO Box 1717 Asheville, NC 28802 828.253.3227 tel 828.257.4503 fax www.ashevilleart.org fthomson at ashevilleart.org -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Perian Sully Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:35 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] Looking for a New Webblast/Email/Metrics Service >From our Development Director. Anyone have any suggestions? We will be migrating our website to Drupal "soon", and I would think that some sort of integrated email marketing tool with metrics functionality would be of particular use here. Thoughts about that would also be helpful. Thanks! **** I am looking to switch our service, for the primary reason that I am concerned that our db has grown "stale".. we are still using the tools I set in place five years ago, and I am worried that there may be those who are not getting mail just cuz the app, known address format are OLD, etc... Also, I want a better look-and-feel and an easier back-end user interface to hand all this over to Faith, with an eye on her doing reports of opens and clicks, users and interests, etc. There's actually a lot of functionality, in terms of tracking with Topica and I do not want to lose that moving forward (not being leveraged well enough now). can you please blast a question to your peeps, about bulk email services and tools with an eye on metrics and reports? Also, I want to start list sharing with other local and national orgs. to build the list. Anything you can get re: issues and case scenarios'd be greatly appreciated. **** Perian Sully Collections Information Manager Web Programs Strategist The Magnes Berkeley, CA _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From sweeting at frick.org Mon May 11 11:29:41 2009 From: sweeting at frick.org (Sweeting III, Floyd) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 14:29:41 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Looking for a New Webblast/Email/Metrics Service In-Reply-To: <6905D9194DC5B6489FA18E7E0763D974086E0F685C@server4.ashart.local> Message-ID: <3C55506774456C4690AB556143F5434D04C1B8F0@tfcmail.frick.org> We use Patron Mail and have found it to be adequate. We are getting good results with a monthly newsletter and judicious targeted event-related e-blasts. -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Frank E. Thomson Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 2:16 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Looking for a New Webblast/Email/Metrics Service Look at constant contact we use it and have had very good luck with it. Frank E. Thomson, Curator Asheville Art Museum PO Box 1717 Asheville, NC 28802 828.253.3227 tel 828.257.4503 fax www.ashevilleart.org fthomson at ashevilleart.org -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Perian Sully Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:35 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] Looking for a New Webblast/Email/Metrics Service >From our Development Director. Anyone have any suggestions? We will be migrating our website to Drupal "soon", and I would think that some sort of integrated email marketing tool with metrics functionality would be of particular use here. Thoughts about that would also be helpful. Thanks! **** I am looking to switch our service, for the primary reason that I am concerned that our db has grown "stale".. we are still using the tools I set in place five years ago, and I am worried that there may be those who are not getting mail just cuz the app, known address format are OLD, etc... Also, I want a better look-and-feel and an easier back-end user interface to hand all this over to Faith, with an eye on her doing reports of opens and clicks, users and interests, etc. There's actually a lot of functionality, in terms of tracking with Topica and I do not want to lose that moving forward (not being leveraged well enough now). can you please blast a question to your peeps, about bulk email services and tools with an eye on metrics and reports? Also, I want to start list sharing with other local and national orgs. to build the list. Anything you can get re: issues and case scenarios'd be greatly appreciated. **** Perian Sully Collections Information Manager Web Programs Strategist The Magnes Berkeley, CA _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ ***************************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. ***************************************************************************** From pbh6 at cornell.edu Mon May 11 13:31:57 2009 From: pbh6 at cornell.edu (Peter Hirtle) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 16:31:57 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] New Cornell digital public domain policy In-Reply-To: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D33D31AD9@mailsrv.imj.org .il> References: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D33D31AD9@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20090511162848.02ee5ff8@cornell.edu> In light of the discussion on the list last week about image "theft," I thought you might be interested in the announcement of Cornell University Library's new policy on digital copies of public domain works. Basically, the Library will continue to charge for services we provide, but we are not going to try to exert any downstream control over copies of public domain works. Peter Hirtle From http://news.library.cornell.edu/com/news/PressReleases/Cornell-University-Library-Removes-All-Restrictions-on-Use-of-Public-Domain-Reproductions.cfm: >FOR RELEASE: >Contact: Peter Hirtle >Phone: (607) 255-4033 >E-mail: pbh6 at cornell.edu >Cornell University Library Removes All >Restrictions on Use of Public Domain Reproductions > >ITHACA, N.Y. (May 11, 2009) ? In a dramatic >change of practice, Cornell University Library >has announced it will no longer require its >users to seek permission to publish public >domain items duplicated from its collections. >Instead, users may now use reproductions of >public domain works made for them by the Library >or available via Web sites, without seeking any further permission. > >The Library, as the producer of digital >reproductions made from its collections, has in >the past licensed the use of those >reproductions. Individuals and corporations that >failed to secure permission to repurpose these >reproductions violated their agreement with the >Library. "The threat of legal action, however," >noted Anne R. Kenney, Carl A. Kroch University >Librarian, "does little to stop bad actors while >at the same time limits the good uses that can >be made of digital surrogates. We decided it was >more important to encourage the use of the >public domain materials in our holdings than to impose roadblocks." > >The immediate impetus for the new policy is >Cornell?s donation of more than 70,000 digitized >public domain books to the Internet Archive >(details at >www.archive.org/details/cornell). > >"Imposing legally binding restrictions on these >digital files would have been very difficult and >in a way contrary to our broad support of open >access principles," said Oya Y. Rieger, >Associate University Librarian for Information >Technologies. "It seemed better just to >acknowledge their public domain status and make >them freely usable for any purpose. And since it >doesn?t make sense to have different rules for >material that is reproduced at the request of >patrons, we have removed permission obligations from public domain works." > >Institutional restrictions on the use of public >domain work, sometimes labeled "copyfraud," have >been the subject of much scholarly criticism. >The Cornell initiative goes further than many >other recent attempts to open access to public >domain material by removing restrictions on both >commercial and non-commercial use. Users of the >public domain works are still expected to >determine on their own that works are in the >public domain where they live. They also must >respect non-copyright rights, such as the rights >of privacy, publicity, and trademark. The >Library will continue to charge service fees >associated with the reproduction of analog >material or the provision of versions of files >different than what is freely available on the >Web. All library Web sites will be updated to >reflect this new policy during 2009. > >The new Cornell policy can be found at >cdl.library.cornell.edu/guidelines.html. > > >About Cornell University Library One of the >leading academic research libraries in the >United States, Cornell University Library is a >highly valued partner in teaching, research and >learning at Cornell University. The Library >offers cutting-edge programs and a full spectrum >of services, rare books and manuscripts and a >growing network of digital resources. The >Library?s outstanding collections ? from >medieval manuscripts to hip hop and from ancient >Chinese texts to comic books ? preserve the past >and pave the way for future scholarship. To >learn more about Cornell University Library, >visit library.cornell.edu. Peter B. Hirtle Senior Policy Advisor Scholarly Resources and Special Collections Cornell University Library 221 Olin Library Ithaca, NY 14853 peter.hirtle at cornell.edu t. 607.255-4033 f. 607.255-2493 From TAMSEN_SCHWARTZMAN at exchange.fitnyc.edu Mon May 11 16:47:52 2009 From: TAMSEN_SCHWARTZMAN at exchange.fitnyc.edu (TAMSEN SCHWARTZMAN) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 19:47:52 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Looking for a New Webblast/Email/Metrics Service In-Reply-To: <3C55506774456C4690AB556143F5434D04C1B8F0@tfcmail.frick.org> References: <6905D9194DC5B6489FA18E7E0763D974086E0F685C@server4.ashart.local>, <3C55506774456C4690AB556143F5434D04C1B8F0@tfcmail.frick.org> Message-ID: We use Patron Mail and are extremely happy with it. Lots of boxed styles, but they'll customize something for you too. They have developed a Facebook app and are looking to develop an integrated list management for arts organizations (that combines mailing list, donor list, lendor list) all in one place. They have been talking with CMS companies like Gallery Systems to get it right. They also provide lots of marketing webinars that are really helpful. Tamsen Schwartzman Museum Media Manager The Museum at FIT, Room E116 Seventh Avenue at 27th Street New York, NY 10001 212~217~4547 ** 212~217~4561 fax www.fitnyc.edu/museum Visit our collections online at fashionmuseum.fitnyc.edu Closes June 16: Seduction (www.fitnyc.edu/seduction) Opens March 10: Muriel King: Artist of Fashion Opens June 16: Isabel Toledo: Fashion from the Inside Out ________________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Sweeting III, Floyd [sweeting at frick.org] Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 2:29 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Looking for a New Webblast/Email/Metrics Service We use Patron Mail and have found it to be adequate. We are getting good results with a monthly newsletter and judicious targeted event-related e-blasts. -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Frank E. Thomson Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 2:16 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Looking for a New Webblast/Email/Metrics Service Look at constant contact we use it and have had very good luck with it. Frank E. Thomson, Curator Asheville Art Museum PO Box 1717 Asheville, NC 28802 828.253.3227 tel 828.257.4503 fax www.ashevilleart.org fthomson at ashevilleart.org -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Perian Sully Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:35 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] Looking for a New Webblast/Email/Metrics Service >From our Development Director. Anyone have any suggestions? We will be migrating our website to Drupal "soon", and I would think that some sort of integrated email marketing tool with metrics functionality would be of particular use here. Thoughts about that would also be helpful. Thanks! **** I am looking to switch our service, for the primary reason that I am concerned that our db has grown "stale".. we are still using the tools I set in place five years ago, and I am worried that there may be those who are not getting mail just cuz the app, known address format are OLD, etc... Also, I want a better look-and-feel and an easier back-end user interface to hand all this over to Faith, with an eye on her doing reports of opens and clicks, users and interests, etc. There's actually a lot of functionality, in terms of tracking with Topica and I do not want to lose that moving forward (not being leveraged well enough now). can you please blast a question to your peeps, about bulk email services and tools with an eye on metrics and reports? Also, I want to start list sharing with other local and national orgs. to build the list. Anything you can get re: issues and case scenarios'd be greatly appreciated. **** Perian Sully Collections Information Manager Web Programs Strategist The Magnes Berkeley, CA _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ ***************************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. ***************************************************************************** _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From valasec at fastmail.fm Mon May 11 21:18:38 2009 From: valasec at fastmail.fm (VALA Secretariat) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 14:18:38 +1000 Subject: [MCN-L] VALA2010 Conference - More Keynote Speakers - and Abstract Submission Reminder Message-ID: <1242101918.31551.1314982345@webmail.messagingengine.com> ***Apologies for cross-postings*** VALA2010: Connections, Content, Conversations 9-11 February 2010 Melbourne Convention and Exhibition Centre , Australia Please remember to pass on this email! Dear Colleague, VALA is excited to announce that Lee Rainie and McKenzie (Ken) Wark will be keynote speakers for the VALA2010 Conference. VALA has already announced that Marshall Breeding is a keynote speaker for VALA2010. Lee Rainie is the Director of the Pew Internet & American Life Project, a non-profit, non?partisan "fact tank" that studies the social impact of the internet. Lee is a co-author of Up for Grabs: The Future of the Internet, Hopes and Fears, and the forthcoming Ubiquity, Mobility, Security, a series of books about the future of the internet published by Cambria Press and based on Project surveys. Lee is also co-authoring a book for MIT Press about the social impact of technology with sociologist Barry Wellman that will be published in 2010. The working title is Connected Lives: The New Social Network Operating System. An internationally respected speaker, Lee gave the opening keynote address at the recent 2009 US Computers in Libraries conference. For further details on Lee go to http://www.pewinternet.org/Experts/Lee-Rainie.aspx. McKenzie (Ken) Wark is the Associate Professor of Media Studies, Eugene Lang College and the New School for Social Research (http://www.newschool.edu/lang/faculty.aspx?id=23748). Ken is a theorist of media and new media with interests in new media technology, intellectual property, computer games, and new media art and culture. He is the author of A Hacker Manifesto (2004), Gamer Theory (2007), and other works. Ken was a member of the Nettime network of new media artists, theorists, and activists for many years and served as co-editor of their anthology Readme! (1999). He has also worked with the Institute for the Future of the Book http://www.futureofthebook.org/mckenziewark) For further details about Ken go to http://www.ludiccrew.org/wark Marshall Breeding is the Director for Innovative Technologies and Research from Vanderbilt University (http://staffweb.library.vanderbilt.edu/breeding). Marshall is also the person behind http://www.librarytechnology.org, as well as being the author of the annual survey into library automated systems, and of a number of important ALA Library Technology reports on open source ILS and next generation catalogues. As well as the six international keynote speakers, the Conference will have more than 40 other papers, for which abstracts are currently being submitted. As you are aware, the deadline for submission of abstracts for VALA2010 has been extended by request to close of business on Wednesday, 13 May 2009 (this week!), so there is still time to add your abstract to those already received. Check out the details of the Call for Papers and submit your abstract online by 13 May 2009. As you will see, VALA is looking for papers on a wide range of subjects, so this could be your opportunity to present your latest research or experience to the delegates at VALA2010. Or if you know of other people who are doing work that may be of interest, direct them to the Call for Papers too. And there's a bonus: there is one discounted registration available per paper accepted for presentation at the Conference (or one free day registration on the day of presentation). Remember that VALA papers for publication are due to be submitted before the end of September in order to begin the peer-review process, during which you have the opportunity to update the paper as events and technologies unfold. And at the conference you are asked to talk to your paper, which means you can be up to the minute with the latest in your field. So, go to http://www.vala.org.au /conf2010.htm and submit online now! With the theme of Connections, Content, Conversations, VALA2010 will take place at the new Melbourne Convention and Exhibition Centre (on the other side of the river) from Tuesday 9 February to Thursday 11 February 2010. Note that we have again left Monday and Friday for associated events, meetings or workshops - contact the VALA Conference Office at info at wsm.com.au if you are interested in holding a workshop or associated event. The Main Announcement and Registration Brochure will be available in August 2009 - contact the VALA Conference Office at info at wsm.com.au if you would like to be added to the list to receive a copy. Remember, you and your organisation will be able to get best value for money by being full members of VALA and paying for your registrations by 30 November 2009, so make your budget plans for the rest of this year accordingly! And if you know a vendor you would like to see at the trade exhibition, the sponsorship and exhibition proposal is also now available - follow the links from the VALA2010 Home page or contact our Conference Office at info at wsm.com.au for a copy. Alyson Kosina Executive Officer VALA - Libraries, Technology and the Future Inc. Reg No A0011933K ABN 75 344 574 577 P.O. Box 509 Mooroolbark VIC 3138 Phone: (03) 9725 2725 Fax: (03) 8625 0079 Email: vala at vala.org.au From rjurban at illinois.edu Tue May 12 12:19:02 2009 From: rjurban at illinois.edu (Richard Urban) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 14:19:02 -0500 Subject: [MCN-L] The Case of the Missing MCN-L Posts Message-ID: <68352F92-D691-4159-81EB-3BAD1D4562CE@illinois.edu> Hi everyone, It appears that we have a bit of technological mystery on our hands. Occasionally I've received reports from people who don't see some of the posts that other see (and reply to), or post messages that never show up. It appears to be an ongoing problem that doesn't seem to have a pattern and that I've not been able to replicate reliably. I would appreciate your assistance trying to track down the source of this problem. If you personally notice that you're missing sent messages, or that your message are not appearing on the list soon after you post them, please contact me directly. If possible include the subject of the post and the date/time that it was sent. If you're missing posts, let me know where the holes are. ;) Thanks, Richard Urban MCN-L List manager rjurban at illinois.edu From ReneeM at lacma.org Tue May 12 14:11:44 2009 From: ReneeM at lacma.org (Montgomery, Renee) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 14:11:44 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Digital Imaging Services Available Message-ID: <785EF3E8EEBF554DBBCC6909943D22B7059521F8@saturn.lacma.org> I am circulating this advertisement for a friend and colleague: Digital Imaging Services for Archival Collections Professional photographer providing Efficient, reliable, meticulous On-site services for all your reproduction needs Paper documents, books, photographs, 3D objects Per current industry standards Editing, creating derivatives, file & server management Carisa Kaplan, Phone (310) 612 - 3011 From sgrinols at famsf.org Tue May 12 14:22:47 2009 From: sgrinols at famsf.org (Sue Grinols) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 14:22:47 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Digital Imaging Services Available In-Reply-To: <785EF3E8EEBF554DBBCC6909943D22B7059521F8@saturn.lacma.org> Message-ID: Hi, Does this person work only in LA? Thanks, -- Susan Grinols Director Photo Services and Imaging Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco Ph. 415.750.3602 Fx. 415.750.2679 On 5/12/09 2:11 PM, "Montgomery, Renee" wrote: > I am circulating this advertisement for a friend and colleague: > > Digital Imaging Services for Archival Collections > > Professional photographer providing > > Efficient, reliable, meticulous > > On-site services for all your reproduction needs > > Paper documents, books, photographs, 3D objects > > Per current industry standards > > Editing, creating derivatives, file & server management > > Carisa Kaplan, Phone (310) 612 - 3011 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer > Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From J-Champagne at NGA.GOV Tue May 12 14:51:49 2009 From: J-Champagne at NGA.GOV (Champagne, Joanna) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:51:49 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Content Management systems Message-ID: Hello, I was hoping to take a poll of CMS Systems Museums are using: Would you mind taking a moment to fill out this one page anonymous survey monkey page http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=OgMvXFDRIj79fl_2fusPFRTQ_3d_3d I will publish results Thanks Joanna ................. Joanna Champagne Chief of Web and New Media Initiatives National Gallery of Art NGA.GOV From akeshet at imj.org.il Wed May 13 00:14:24 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:14:24 +0200 Subject: [MCN-L] IP SIG: Conference on the 100th Anniversary of the 1909 Copyright Act Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D40FEF4FB@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Conference papers (including those by past MCN conference speakers Roberta Kwall, Tyler Ochoa, and Lolly Gasaway) are available at: http://law.scu.edu/hightech/copyright-conference-papers.cfm Roberta Kwall's paper on "AUTHORS IN DISGUISE: WHY THE VISUAL ARTISTS RIGHTS ACT GOT IT WRONG" may be of particular interest to those in art museums. Amalyah Keshet Chair, MCN IP SIG ________________________________ Conference on the 100th Anniversary of the 1909 Copyright Act April 30, 2009 Santa Clara University School of Law http://law.scu.edu/hightech/copyright-conference.cfm Sponsored by: High Tech Law Institute, Santa Clara University School of Law, and Berkeley Center for Law & Technology, University of California at Berkeley School of Law Join two dozen distinguished scholars and practitioners to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the 1909 Act and its profound effect on U.S. and international copyright law. The 1909 Copyright Act marked a revolution in U.S. copyright law. The 1909 Act was the first to protect works upon publication with notice, without prior registration; the first to expressly recognize a right to prepare derivative works; and the first to expressly recognize the public domain. The 1909 Act remained in effect for seven decades, during which time copyright law was repeatedly called upon to deal with the disruptive effect of new technologies, such as motion pictures, sound recordings, radio and television, photocopy machines, and computers. As a result, the 1909 Act had a significant influence on the copyright law we have today. The conference program features two dozen copyright law experts, including keynote talks by David Nimmer (Of Counsel, Irell & Manella), William Patry (Senior Counsel, Google) and Marybeth Peters (Register of Copyrights, U.S. Copyright Office) ___ Eric Goldman Associate Professor, Santa Clara University School of Law Director, High Tech Law Institute egoldman at gmail.com Personal website: http://www.ericgoldman.org Blogs: http://blog.ericgoldman.org and http://blog.ericgoldman.org/personal/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/ericgoldman From hraatz at artsmia.org Wed May 13 08:37:45 2009 From: hraatz at artsmia.org (Heidi Raatz) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:37:45 -0500 Subject: [MCN-L] Call for Proposals, 28th Annual VRA Conference, 2010, Atlanta, GA Message-ID: <4A0AA2F9.2603.00CC.0@artsmia.org> Call for Proposals, VRA Atlanta 2010 The Visual Resources Association's 28th Annual Conference will be held in Atlanta, GA from Wednesday March 17th through Saturday March 20th at the Westin Peachtree Plaza, Atlanta: http://www.starwoodhotels.com/westin/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1023 (http://tinyurl.com/ovd96 ) We are now soliciting proposals for the 2010 program sessions, workshops, papers and special interest groups. http://vraweb.org/conferences/2010Atlanta/proposal.php A *Session* is a 90 minute moderated session with 3 or 4 speakers at 20 minutes each followed by a facilitated brief question and answer period. A *Special Interest Group* is a 60 to 90-minute informal facilitated group discussion on topics related to a specific community within VRA. A *Workshop* is a 3 to 4 hour workshop to develop skills and experience in the field of Visual Resources, preferably with hands-on activities. General areas of interest include, but are not limited to: digital photography; digital imaging and presentation technologies; strategic planning; cataloging and metadata (including non-western, non-art, and special topics cataloging); trend forecasting for the visual resources profession; copyright and fair use; user instruction; and professional status issues. Attendees at the VRA Conference range from students and new professionals to seasoned mid and late career VR curators. Proposals from and directed to all attendees are welcome. We are always looking for ways to round out our programming, make it fresh and unique for our attendees, and therefore encourage submissions in VR-related areas not listed above and from new constituencies. In our post-conference survey we found that our members are particularly interested in the following themes & topics. Overall these topics reflect a concern with managing change balanced with continuity in the future of our profession and the collections we manage. Joint library & visual resources concerns Intellectual property issues, particularly in an international context & as they involve contemporary art; also differences in perspective on copy photography between libraries & VR collections Image & cataloging commons / resource sharing - the nuts & bolts Tips for younger professionals managing older staffers with emphasis on user training for new technology tools New technologies (encore! encore!) Marketing & selling visual resources collections & services User instruction to various constituencies - faculty, students, campus/institution-wide Time management, particularly in relation to job cuts & increased workloads Planning for retirement Reconfiguring & equipping the former slide library for the digital environment Leadership & mentoring Deposition of analog materials no longer in use Look for the proposal link (above) to appear on the VRA.org homepage very soon. The quality of conference content depends upon YOUR ideas and contributions. The VRA Executive Board will be looking for complete, concise and articulate submissions with full lists of presenters. Moderators may put out calls for speakers within a proposed topic before submitting their completed topics to the Executive Board. Specificity regarding audio-visual needs including live internet connectivity is required. If there is an area of concern or interest that you feel has not been addressed in previous programs, do consider submitting a proposal. Questions about the proposal process and the various presentation formats included in the VRA conference program can be directed to me at hraatz at artsmia.org. The proposal deadline is July 3, 2009. I look forward to receiving your proposals! Sincerely, Heidi S. Raatz Vice President for Conference Program Heidi S. Raatz | Visual Resources Librarian Minneapolis Institute of Arts 2400 Third Avenue South Minneapolis, MN 55404 (612) 870-3196 | (612) 870-3029 - permissions | hraatz at artsmia.org | permissions at artsmia.org| www.artsmia.org ( http://www.artsmia.org/ ) From akeshet at imj.org.il Wed May 13 10:40:14 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 19:40:14 +0200 Subject: [MCN-L] =?windows-1255?q?=FE=FEJust_published=3A_Visual_Resources?= =?windows-1255?q?_25=3A1-2_=28March-June_2009=29?= Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D40F730B8@mailsrv.imj.org.il> ________________________________________ ? Just published: Visual Resources 25:1-2 (March-June 2009) The editors of Visual Resources are pleased to announce the publication of a new special double issue, "Visualizing the Invisible: Visionary Technologies in Religious and Cultural Contexts" - http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/spissue/gvir-si4.asp. Lisa Bitel, Professor of History and Religion at the University of Southern California, who served as guest editor, offers this description: "This special issue of Visual Resources tackles an enduring psychological and spiritual dilemma: How can we represent the invisible? How do we prove or disprove the validity what others see but we ourselves cannot? Articles in the volume focus on Christian contexts, tracing the ways that visual thinkers of Western society have approached the problem of visualizing the invisible across continents and over centuries. Together, these interdisciplinary studies of religious vision suggest useful new perspectives on the relation of art, aesthetics, science, and faith in our own historical moment of surging religiosity and globalizing visual culture." Below is a summary listing of the contents of the issue. For free access to the abstracts of the articles, please visit http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title~content=g910561939~db=all This special double issue is available for single purchase at a special price through the publisher's Web site. VISUAL RESOURCES: An International Journal of Documentation Vol. XXV, Nos. 1-2 (ISSN 0197-3762) TABLE OF CONTENTS 1 Editorial: Visions, Ghosts, Spirits, and Art BOARD-APPROVED SPECIAL DOUBLE ISSUE Visualizing the Invisible: Visionary Technologies in Religious and Cultural Contexts 3 Lisa Bitel, Introduction: Visualizing the Invisible: Visionary Technologies in Religious and Cultural Contexts 7 Andrew Fogleman, Finding a Middle Way: Late Medieval Naturalism and Visionary Experience 29 Dallas G. Denery II, Protagoras and the Fourteenth-Century Invention of Epistemological Relativism 53 Luis Corteguera, Talking Images in the Spanish Empire 69 Lisa Bitel with images by Matt Gainer, Looking the Wrong Way: Authenticity and Proof of Religious Vision 93 Roberto Lint Sagarena, Making a There There: Marian Muralism and Devotional Streetscapes 109 Daniel Wojcik, Spirits, Apparitions, and Traditions of Supernatural Photography 137 Ann Taves, Channeled Apparitions: On Visions that Morph and Categories that Slip 153 William A. Christian, Jr., AFTERWORD: Islands in the Sea: The Public and Private Distribution of Knowledge of Religious Visions For more information about VR and our previous publication history, please visit http://www.mindspring.com/~sundt-vr/ for the complete tables of contents and list of special issues, in addition to information about the journal, including subscriptions. Through special arrangements with the journal's publisher, Taylor & Francis/Routledge, we have been able to secure a reduced rate for individual subscribers who are members of the College Art Association, the Visual Resources Association, and the Association of Art Historians. See http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/offer/gvir-so.asp for details. Christine L. Sundt, Editor Helen Ronan, Reviews Editor Murtha Baca, News Editor -- Christine L. Sundt, Editor Visual Resources: An International Journal of Documentation P.O. Box 5316 Eugene, OR 97405-0316 USA phone: 541.485.1420 VR Website: http://www.mindspring.com/~sundt-vr/ csundt(at)mindspring.com or csundt(at)gmail.com From TAtherton at st-albert.net Wed May 13 10:37:32 2009 From: TAtherton at st-albert.net (Timothy Atherton) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:37:32 -0600 Subject: [MCN-L] Cornell University Library makes Public Domain copies public Message-ID: <3F48707C7274884BA48CD2D08EFFDA3C016831F5@courier.stalbert.local> "Cornell University Library Removes All Restrictions on Use of Public Domain Reproductions ITHACA, N.Y. (May 11, 2009) - In a dramatic change of practice, Cornell University Library has announced it will no longer require its users to seek permission to publish public domain items duplicated from its collections. Instead, users may now use reproductions of public domain works made for them by the Library or available via Web sites, without seeking any further permission...." more at: http://hurstassociates.blogspot.com/2009/05/press-release-cornell-university.html Interesting news. I think this is a trend which is only going to increase tim atherton ----- Tim Atherton Assistant Curator Archives & Research Mus?e H?ritage Museum St. Albert (780) 459-1594 tatherton at st-albert.net From bbe3mn at yahoo.com Wed May 13 10:45:45 2009 From: bbe3mn at yahoo.com (nara) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [MCN-L] advice us to resolve problem of the exhibition content build up for web Message-ID: <583863.96494.qm@web50907.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear all, ? We are master students of International Museum Studies, Gothenburg University in Sweden. We?have planing?to display? the "Masked" Exhibition between 19th-28th May 2009. The Masked Exhibition's target audiences are Young Adult, Family and Personals of Museums. Our web team wanted to be put CV of IMS students on the link "Exhibition Processes" of web. Regarding our exhibition's target audiences, I (marketing team) don't like?put Students?CV on the link "Exhibition Process".? Please join us via www.maskedexhibition.com and resolve our problems. Thank you, Waiting your comments. ? Regards, Nara ? ? From RStein at imamuseum.org Wed May 13 12:39:03 2009 From: RStein at imamuseum.org (Rob Stein) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 15:39:03 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] The Case of the Missing MCN-L Posts In-Reply-To: <68352F92-D691-4159-81EB-3BAD1D4562CE@illinois.edu> References: <68352F92-D691-4159-81EB-3BAD1D4562CE@illinois.edu> Message-ID: Hi Richard, I've noticed a few things recently... Specifically: I received a message from Sue Grinols at 8:36 am responding to a mail entitled "Re: [MCN-L] Digital Imaging Services Available", but did not receive the original post from Renee Montgomery until 11:56 am later this morning... Likewise: Yesterday, I saw some activity from Floyd Sweeting and Ari Davidow responding to a message from Perian Sully inquiring about "Re: [MCN-L] Looking for a New Webblast/Email/Metrics Service" at 2:03 am and 6:13 am respectively, but did not receive Perian's original email until 11:23 am this morning... I seem to experience the case of the missing email fairly frequently, and have checked by spam gateway to ensure that it's not getting held up there... Wondering if others are experiencing the same? Rob -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Urban Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:19 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] The Case of the Missing MCN-L Posts Hi everyone, It appears that we have a bit of technological mystery on our hands. Occasionally I've received reports from people who don't see some of the posts that other see (and reply to), or post messages that never show up. It appears to be an ongoing problem that doesn't seem to have a pattern and that I've not been able to replicate reliably. I would appreciate your assistance trying to track down the source of this problem. If you personally notice that you're missing sent messages, or that your message are not appearing on the list soon after you post them, please contact me directly. If possible include the subject of the post and the date/time that it was sent. If you're missing posts, let me know where the holes are. ;) Thanks, Richard Urban MCN-L List manager rjurban at illinois.edu _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ smtp.imamuseum.org made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------- FILM | Objectified | Thur, May 14 | 7 pm | A film featuring the designers behind IKEA and the iPod | Buy Tickets Online --------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTICE: Wed May 13 2009 15:39:09 This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From Christinad at SeattleArtMuseum.org Wed May 13 15:35:13 2009 From: Christinad at SeattleArtMuseum.org (Christina DePaolo) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 15:35:13 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Content Management systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6440C474B3F6FE4EB44B34421B3E501E165B96139C@dtes01.SAM.Home> Hi there, Joanna can you please post your findings to the list serve? Thanks. Christina -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Champagne, Joanna Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 2:52 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] Content Management systems Hello, I was hoping to take a poll of CMS Systems Museums are using: Would you mind taking a moment to fill out this one page anonymous survey monkey page http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=OgMvXFDRIj79fl_2fusPFRTQ_3d_3d I will publish results Thanks Joanna ................. Joanna Champagne Chief of Web and New Media Initiatives National Gallery of Art NGA.GOV _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From akeshet at imj.org.il Thu May 14 06:48:06 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:48:06 +0200 Subject: [MCN-L] IP SIG: Pamela Samuelson on the Google Book Search Settlement Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781D40FEF531@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Thanks to the intrepid Peter Brantly, Pamela Samuelson's presentation of the issues in the Google Book Search settlement is available at http://www.slideshare.net/naypinya/reflections-on-the-google-book-search-settlement-by-pamela-samuelson No mention of the international legal repercussions, unfortunately. However, she does point out that access to Google Book Search in libraries will be limited to one computer per subscribing library, no printing out, copying, or privacy (monitoring users, yes), and researchers will have to apply for permission to search across the entire Google Book Search corpus. Also, royalties on sales of copyrighted books via Google Book Search will go to authors registered with the settlement's proposed Book Rights Registry -- including royalties from books written by other, non-registered authors. The best part, however, is the amount to be paid to the lawyers representing the Authors Guild and the AAP (the two organizations who brought the class action suit against Google): $45.5 million, which is half a million more than the total sum to be paid out to authors (as compensation for Google's scanning their books). As more than one commentator has put it, the settlement seems like a cosy deal for those involved in the settlement, but a raw deal for the public interest. One thing we may not realize, but should, is that this is a class action settlement -- museums, as authors and publishers, are part of the story. As Samuelson points out, neither the AG or the AAP share the research values of the majority of the authors whose works are being scanned by Google. Amalyah Keshet ________________________________ On 16 Apr 2009, at 22:46, Peter Brantley wrote: with pam's permission, I have posted her recent presentation on the google book search settlement proposal at the univ of north carolina on april 14. http://www.slideshare.net/naypinya/reflections-on-the-google-book-search-settlement-by-pamela-samuelson From rjurban at illinois.edu Thu May 14 06:57:30 2009 From: rjurban at illinois.edu (Richard Urban) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 08:57:30 -0500 Subject: [MCN-L] The Case of the Missing MCN-L Posts In-Reply-To: References: <68352F92-D691-4159-81EB-3BAD1D4562CE@illinois.edu> Message-ID: <115AE0FC-6D97-44B8-9500-98F357C2D73D@illinois.edu> Thanks Rob, and thanks to everyone who has responded off-list. I'll keep you posted on resolutions to this problem. And keep your missing posts messages coming! Richard On May 13, 2009, at 2:39 PM, Rob Stein wrote: > Hi Richard, > > I've noticed a few things recently... Specifically: > > I received a message from Sue Grinols at 8:36 am responding to a mail > entitled "Re: [MCN-L] Digital Imaging Services Available", but did not > receive the original post from Renee Montgomery until 11:56 am later > this morning... > > Likewise: > > Yesterday, I saw some activity from Floyd Sweeting and Ari Davidow > responding to a message from Perian Sully inquiring about "Re: [MCN-L] > Looking for a New Webblast/Email/Metrics Service" at 2:03 am and > 6:13 am > respectively, but did not receive Perian's original email until > 11:23 am > this morning... > > I seem to experience the case of the missing email fairly frequently, > and have checked by spam gateway to ensure that it's not getting > held up > there... Wondering if others are experiencing the same? > > Rob > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf > Of > Richard Urban > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:19 PM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: [MCN-L] The Case of the Missing MCN-L Posts > > Hi everyone, > > It appears that we have a bit of technological mystery on our hands. > Occasionally I've received reports from people who don't see some of > the > posts that other see (and reply to), or post messages that never > show up. It appears to be an ongoing problem that doesn't seem to > have a pattern and that I've not been able to replicate reliably. > > I would appreciate your assistance trying to track down the source of > this problem. If you personally notice that you're missing sent > messages, or that your message are not appearing on the list soon > after you post them, please contact me directly. If possible > include the subject of the post and the date/time that it was sent. > If you're missing posts, let me know where the holes are. ;) > > Thanks, > Richard Urban > MCN-L List manager > rjurban at illinois.edu > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > smtp.imamuseum.org made the following annotations > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > FILM | Objectified | Thur, May 14 | 7 pm | A film featuring the > designers behind IKEA and the iPod | Buy Tickets Online > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > NOTICE: > > Wed May 13 2009 15:39:09 > > > > This email message is for the sole use of the intended > recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. Any > unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. > If you are > not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email > and > destroy all copies of the original message. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From J-Champagne at NGA.GOV Thu May 14 09:59:58 2009 From: J-Champagne at NGA.GOV (Champagne, Joanna) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:59:58 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Content Management systems In-Reply-To: <6440C474B3F6FE4EB44B34421B3E501E165B96139C@dtes01.SAM.Home> Message-ID: Hello, Certainly they are still racking up. If you have not taken the survey on CMSs please do: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=OgMvXFDRIj79fl_2fusPFRTQ_3d_3d Best, Joanna On 5/13/09 6:35 PM, "Christina DePaolo" wrote: > Hi there, > Joanna can you please post your findings to the list serve? Thanks. Christina > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of > Champagne, Joanna > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 2:52 PM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: [MCN-L] Content Management systems > > Hello, > > I was hoping to take a poll of CMS Systems Museums are using: > > Would you mind taking a moment to fill out this one page anonymous survey > monkey page > > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=OgMvXFDRIj79fl_2fusPFRTQ_3d_3d > > I will publish results > > Thanks > Joanna > > > ................. > Joanna Champagne > Chief of Web and New Media Initiatives > National Gallery of Art > NGA.GOV > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer > Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer > Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From ewg4xuva at gmail.com Thu May 14 10:05:24 2009 From: ewg4xuva at gmail.com (Ethan Gruber) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:05:24 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums Message-ID: Hi, I'm a developer in a library that deals with a lot of special collections objects. I've dealt with traditional museum-type objects, such as ancient coins and the challenges in providing access to them online. I used Encoded Archival Description (EAD) to describe them quite robustly in XML. This is a fairly standard schema in libraries, and I was wondering to what extent EAD is used by museums to describe their own collections. I have presented at two conferences in the last year (Archiving 2008 and Computer Applications in Archaeology in 2009) regarding EAD for numismatics, and I have received a number of comments that suggest EAD is rarely used in that capacity by museums, especially European ones. If anyone on this list can offer their insights into EAD in museums, I would appreciate it. For further reference, the project website is: http://coins.lib.virginia.edu/ and the documentation section has a draft of best practices guidelines and the powerpoint presentation I recently gave. Ethan Gruber University of Virginia Library From waibelg at oclc.org Thu May 14 10:26:01 2009 From: waibelg at oclc.org (Waibel,Guenter) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:26:01 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: EAD indeed is rarely used to describe museum collections, but it is used frequently in museum archives. The only project I am aware of that used EAD to describe museum object collections was Museums and the Online Archive of California (MOAC). You'll find a lot of documents related to this project at http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/moac/classic/, and a D-Lib article at http://www.dlib.org/dlib/january03/rinehart/01rinehart.html. Cheers, G?nter Waibel OCLC Research voice: +1-650-287-2144 G?nter blogs at ... http://www.hangingtogether.org -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Ethan Gruber Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:05 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums Hi, I'm a developer in a library that deals with a lot of special collections objects. I've dealt with traditional museum-type objects, such as ancient coins and the challenges in providing access to them online. I used Encoded Archival Description (EAD) to describe them quite robustly in XML. This is a fairly standard schema in libraries, and I was wondering to what extent EAD is used by museums to describe their own collections. I have presented at two conferences in the last year (Archiving 2008 and Computer Applications in Archaeology in 2009) regarding EAD for numismatics, and I have received a number of comments that suggest EAD is rarely used in that capacity by museums, especially European ones. If anyone on this list can offer their insights into EAD in museums, I would appreciate it. For further reference, the project website is: http://coins.lib.virginia.edu/ and the documentation section has a draft of best practices guidelines and the powerpoint presentation I recently gave. Ethan Gruber University of Virginia Library _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From melings at library.berkeley.edu Thu May 14 10:30:11 2009 From: melings at library.berkeley.edu (M. Elings) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:30:11 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20090514101415.048af008@library.berkeley.edu> Ethan, I am not sure how widely used it is currently, but there was a project some years ago that you might look into called the Museums and the Online Archive of California (MOAC) project (http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/moac/classic), which started out to encode museum collections using EAD. The outcomes and follow-on projects were interesting but the museum's final assessment seems to have been that EAD was too archives--centric and that museums needed an xml schema more relevant to their descriptive practices. CDWAlite is potentially that solution. Mary W. Elings Archivist for Digital Collections The Bancroft Library University of California Berkeley, CA 94720-6000 melings*library.berkeley.edu Ph 510-643-2273 Fx 510-643-2548 At 10:05 AM 5/14/2009, Ethan Gruber wrote: >Hi, > >I'm a developer in a library that deals with a lot of special collections >objects. I've dealt with traditional museum-type objects, such as ancient >coins and the challenges in providing access to them online. I used Encoded >Archival Description (EAD) to describe them quite robustly in XML. This is >a fairly standard schema in libraries, and I was wondering to what extent >EAD is used by museums to describe their own collections. I have presented >at two conferences in the last year (Archiving 2008 and Computer >Applications in Archaeology in 2009) regarding EAD for numismatics, and I >have received a number of comments that suggest EAD is rarely used in that >capacity by museums, especially European ones. > >If anyone on this list can offer their insights into EAD in museums, I would >appreciate it. For further reference, the project website is: >http://coins.lib.virginia.edu/ and the documentation section has a draft of >best practices guidelines and the powerpoint presentation I recently gave. > >Ethan Gruber >University of Virginia Library >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum >Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > >To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > >To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > >The MCN-L archives can be found at: >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From ewg4xuva at gmail.com Thu May 14 11:11:07 2009 From: ewg4xuva at gmail.com (Ethan Gruber) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:11:07 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20090514101415.048af008@library.berkeley.edu> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20090514101415.048af008@library.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: Hi Mary and Guenter, Thanks for the replies. I have checked out CDWA, and, like VRA Core, I think it lacks a good way of describing organizational hierarchies and applying the rich textual description that EAD does. I think that the best solution is something in between EAD and CDWA, preserving the contextual nodes of EAD, but with the ontology specific to art museums that CDWA offers. Of course, one's choice of metadata is dependent upon what one wants in a user interface. I wanted publication-quality essays, which EAD can deliver with descgrp and scopecontents, complete with footnotes, bibliographies, tables, figures, lists, etc. Essays were a fundamental feature of the project and ultimately why I decided against using CDWA or VRA Core. Also, and maybe this is just nit-picky, but I don't like the way CDWA is written. It's very verbose and there seems to be a general resistence to using attributes, which also makes it fairly inflexible for describing certain objects or features. Ethan On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 1:30 PM, M. Elings wrote: > Ethan, > I am not sure how widely used it is currently, but there was a > project some years ago that you might look into called the Museums > and the Online Archive of California (MOAC) project > (http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/moac/classic), which started out to > encode museum collections using EAD. The outcomes and follow-on > projects were interesting but the museum's final assessment seems to > have been that EAD was too archives--centric and that museums needed > an xml schema more relevant to their descriptive practices. CDWAlite > is potentially that solution. > > Mary W. Elings > Archivist for Digital Collections > The Bancroft Library > University of California > Berkeley, CA 94720-6000 > melings*library.berkeley.edu > Ph 510-643-2273 > Fx 510-643-2548 > > At 10:05 AM 5/14/2009, Ethan Gruber wrote: > >Hi, > > > >I'm a developer in a library that deals with a lot of special collections > >objects. I've dealt with traditional museum-type objects, such as ancient > >coins and the challenges in providing access to them online. I used > Encoded > >Archival Description (EAD) to describe them quite robustly in XML. This > is > >a fairly standard schema in libraries, and I was wondering to what extent > >EAD is used by museums to describe their own collections. I have > presented > >at two conferences in the last year (Archiving 2008 and Computer > >Applications in Archaeology in 2009) regarding EAD for numismatics, and I > >have received a number of comments that suggest EAD is rarely used in that > >capacity by museums, especially European ones. > > > >If anyone on this list can offer their insights into EAD in museums, I > would > >appreciate it. For further reference, the project website is: > >http://coins.lib.virginia.edu/ and the documentation section has a draft > of > >best practices guidelines and the powerpoint presentation I recently gave. > > > >Ethan Gruber > >University of Virginia Library > >_______________________________________________ > >You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > >Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > > >To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > > >To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > > >The MCN-L archives can be found at: > >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer > Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > From julie at openedit.org Thu May 14 12:59:31 2009 From: julie at openedit.org (Julie Riley OpenEdit) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:59:31 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Anyone going to Henry Stewart DAM Symposium? Message-ID: <4A0C7823.7010307@openedit.org> Hi, I suppose this is self promotion but since we discuss DAM from time to time here, where better to post?! Wondering if anyone plans to go to Henry Stewart DAM Symposium in NY (http://www.damusers.com) next month? We will be showing the latest version of our open source DAM software, newly named EnterMedia. Would be great to meet some of you. If you are there, be sure to stop by, say hi and check out EnterMedia by OpenEdit. Hope to see you! Julie -- ---------------------- Julie Riley VP of Business Solutions OpenEdit, Inc. P 937-671-6212 F 513-297-5988 julie at openedit.org http://www.openeditDAM.com http://www.openedit.org Twitter openedit OpenEdit DAM - Open Source Digital Asset Management integrated with Web Content Management From Jeanne.Kessler at nationalww2museum.org Thu May 14 13:23:53 2009 From: Jeanne.Kessler at nationalww2museum.org (Jeanne Kessler) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:23:53 -0500 Subject: [MCN-L] Stats on aging museum audience Message-ID: <2A57828BC165D64E88DB9A957CB84BE02DCB493B77@650store.ddaymuseum.org> I am putting together a presentation on why it's important to reach out to younger people using newer methods (e.g., web 2.0) Does anyone have any stats on the general aging of museum goers/attendees? Thanks. Jeanne Kessler IT Project Manager The National WWII Museum 945 Magazine Street New Orleans, LA 70130 Phone: 504/527-6012, ext. 228 Cell: 504/723-0765 Fax: 504/527-6088 Jeanne.Kessler at nationalww2museum.org From howie at cdiny.com Thu May 14 13:27:20 2009 From: howie at cdiny.com (Howard Goldstein) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:27:20 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Fedora Small Archives Community wiki Message-ID: Ari Davidow of the Jewish Women's Archive and I are participating in a wiki posted by Fedora Commons. We hope to encourage dialogue about Fedora and it's use for repositories and possible evolution of interfaces and modules. Please take a look, participate, and share your thoughts and ideas: http://www.fedora-commons.org/confluence/display/FCCWG/Small+Archives You can register from the Dashboard on the left hand side: http://www.fedora-commons.org/confluence/dashboard.action or directly from here: https://fedora-commons.org/jira/secure/Signup!default.jspa Thanks! Howie Howard Goldstein Vice President Center for Digital Imaging, Inc. (203) 366-3771 Cell (917) 842-5754 From melissa.fournier at yale.edu Thu May 14 13:56:23 2009 From: melissa.fournier at yale.edu (Fournier, Melissa) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:56:23 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] FW: JPEG 2000 Survey Final Report Message-ID: Forwarding the below with permission...given some recent threads on MCN-l , might be of interest to some here not on the other lists mentioned....? Melissa From: IMAGELIB [mailto:IMAGELIB at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael J. Bennett Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 4:59 PM To: IMAGELIB at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [IMAGELIB] JPEG 2000 Survey Final Report Colleagues, Please excuse any cross-posting to the CONTENTdm, ImageLib, DigLib, DigiPres, OCA, PADG, and PIG lists. First, thanks once more to those who responded this past fall to our survey of digital project staff regarding JPEG 2000 implementation at your institutions. We presented our findings at last week's IS&T Archiving 2009 Conference in Arlington, VA and would like to share the final report with folks here who may be interested the standard's current status within the cultural heritage community. Final Report: http://digitalcommons.uconn.edu/libr_pubs/19/ Final Presentation: http://digitalcommons.uconn.edu/libr_pres/21/ Thanks again, Michael Bennett & David Lowe ================================= Michael J. Bennett Digital Projects Librarian & Institutional Repository Coordinator University of Connecticut Homer Babbidge Library 369 Fairfield Way, U2005-P Storrs, CT 06269 860-486-5276 860-486-6017 fax ================================= From khamma at me.com Thu May 14 17:55:10 2009 From: khamma at me.com (Kenneth Hamma) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:55:10 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8FC3B991-0881-47B4-A151-F455545C5ECA@me.com> G?nter, Recalling a talk by you at IMLS in DC a couple of years ago, this might be a time to talk a bit about cataloging for bibliographic, unique works and heaps of unique works. And the use of the right tool for the right material regardless of the museum - archive - library designation? ken Kenneth Hamma +1 310 270 8008 khamma at me.com 368 Patel Place Palm Springs CA 92264 On May 14, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Waibel,Guenter wrote: > EAD indeed is rarely used to describe museum collections, but it is > used frequently in museum archives. The only project I am aware of > that used EAD to describe museum object collections was Museums and > the Online Archive of California (MOAC). You'll find a lot of > documents related to this project at http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/moac/classic/ > , and a D-Lib article at http://www.dlib.org/dlib/january03/rinehart/01rinehart.html > . > > Cheers, > > G?nter Waibel > OCLC Research > voice: +1-650-287-2144 > G?nter blogs at ... http://www.hangingtogether.org > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf > Of Ethan Gruber > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:05 AM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums > > Hi, > > I'm a developer in a library that deals with a lot of special > collections > objects. I've dealt with traditional museum-type objects, such as > ancient > coins and the challenges in providing access to them online. I used > Encoded > Archival Description (EAD) to describe them quite robustly in XML. > This is > a fairly standard schema in libraries, and I was wondering to what > extent > EAD is used by museums to describe their own collections. I have > presented > at two conferences in the last year (Archiving 2008 and Computer > Applications in Archaeology in 2009) regarding EAD for numismatics, > and I > have received a number of comments that suggest EAD is rarely used > in that > capacity by museums, especially European ones. > > If anyone on this list can offer their insights into EAD in museums, > I would > appreciate it. For further reference, the project website is: > http://coins.lib.virginia.edu/ and the documentation section has a > draft of > best practices guidelines and the powerpoint presentation I recently > gave. > > Ethan Gruber > University of Virginia Library > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From waibelg at oclc.org Fri May 15 10:13:00 2009 From: waibelg at oclc.org (Waibel,Guenter) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 13:13:00 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums In-Reply-To: <8FC3B991-0881-47B4-A151-F455545C5ECA@me.com> References: <8FC3B991-0881-47B4-A151-F455545C5ECA@me.com> Message-ID: Ken, I think what you're referring to is the grid of standards I've often shown in the past, which comes from an article Mary Elings and I wrote for FirstMonday. http://firstmonday.org/htbin/cgiwrap/bin/ojs/index.php/fm/article/viewArticle/1628/1543#e9 The article argues that we may be thinking about our standards landscape to narrowly. Rather than thinking about standards which emanated out of one specific community as only being applicable to that particular setting, we should think of it as applying to a specific material type, which can occur whether you're in a library, archive or museum. At the end of the day, I think it all boils down to this question: which other materials do you think you're materials should be able to integrate with? If you think it's books, then use a bibliographic standards. If you think it's cultural objects, then use a standard appropriate for that. If you think it's bulk materials, then use an archival standard. For a typical museum collection with a focus on individual objects, I wouldn't advocate the use of EAD as a general solution. MOAC used EAD XML for two primary reasons: 1. because there was no XML schema for cultural objects at that point in time, and 2. because the resource MOAC was contributing to (the Online Archive of California) only accepted EAD XML. It was a pragmatic decision based on specific circumstances, but now that we have data exchange standards like CDWA Lite XML, that's most likely the more appropriate choice for cultural materials described at an item-level. I would also say that for certain types of collections, museums may benefit from a collection-level strategy just to get information about the availability of materials out there. The natural history community, for example, created Natural Collections Descriptions (NCD) for that precise purpose (see http://wiki.tdwg.org/NCD/). Cheers, G?nter -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Hamma Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:55 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums G?nter, Recalling a talk by you at IMLS in DC a couple of years ago, this might be a time to talk a bit about cataloging for bibliographic, unique works and heaps of unique works. And the use of the right tool for the right material regardless of the museum - archive - library designation? ken Kenneth Hamma +1 310 270 8008 khamma at me.com 368 Patel Place Palm Springs CA 92264 On May 14, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Waibel,Guenter wrote: > EAD indeed is rarely used to describe museum collections, but it is > used frequently in museum archives. The only project I am aware of > that used EAD to describe museum object collections was Museums and > the Online Archive of California (MOAC). You'll find a lot of > documents related to this project at http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/moac/classic/ > , and a D-Lib article at http://www.dlib.org/dlib/january03/rinehart/01rinehart.html > . > > Cheers, > > G?nter Waibel > OCLC Research > voice: +1-650-287-2144 > G?nter blogs at ... http://www.hangingtogether.org > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf > Of Ethan Gruber > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:05 AM > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums > > Hi, > > I'm a developer in a library that deals with a lot of special > collections > objects. I've dealt with traditional museum-type objects, such as > ancient > coins and the challenges in providing access to them online. I used > Encoded > Archival Description (EAD) to describe them quite robustly in XML. > This is > a fairly standard schema in libraries, and I was wondering to what > extent > EAD is used by museums to describe their own collections. I have > presented > at two conferences in the last year (Archiving 2008 and Computer > Applications in Archaeology in 2009) regarding EAD for numismatics, > and I > have received a number of comments that suggest EAD is rarely used > in that > capacity by museums, especially European ones. > > If anyone on this list can offer their insights into EAD in museums, > I would > appreciate it. For further reference, the project website is: > http://coins.lib.virginia.edu/ and the documentation section has a > draft of > best practices guidelines and the powerpoint presentation I recently > gave. > > Ethan Gruber > University of Virginia Library > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From richard at light.demon.co.uk Fri May 15 10:38:31 2009 From: richard at light.demon.co.uk (Richard Light) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 18:38:31 +0100 Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums In-Reply-To: References: <8FC3B991-0881-47B4-A151-F455545C5ECA@me.com> Message-ID: In message , "Waibel,Guenter" writes >At the end of the day, I think it all boils down to this question: >which other materials do you think you're materials should be able to >integrate with? If you think it's books, then use a bibliographic >standards. If you think it's cultural objects, then use a standard >appropriate for that. If you think it's bulk materials, then use an >archival standard. This raises the further question: how we can ever hope to pool MLA information and deliver it as a single coherent information resource? The answer to this may lie outside our community, for example in the Linked Data initiative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_Data Richard -- Richard Light From melings at library.berkeley.edu Fri May 15 10:50:43 2009 From: melings at library.berkeley.edu (M. Elings) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:50:43 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums In-Reply-To: References: <8FC3B991-0881-47B4-A151-F455545C5ECA@me.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20090515102422.048ec628@library.berkeley.edu> The grid of standards G?nter mentioned is focused on the cultural heritage community. While one can argue that you should use the most appropriate data standards for the materials being described, the reality is that many of us are bound by the standards (and tools that work those standards) that facilitate access, such as the case G?nter mentions wherein the aggregator only accepted EAD. This is a localized issue but is one that has hampered broader aggregation of resources from LAMs (libraries, archives, and museums), which is one of the reasons -- if I can use the phrase -- the "silos of the LAMs" exist. I have often had the conversation about the need for a community-neutral way to aggregate content from seemingly disparate LAMs for access purposes. And the fact that the solution is not likely to come from any one of those communities but from an uber-organization not invested in the descriptive idiosyncracies our communities have developed. To some extent, a solution has arrived. The Commons on Flickr is providing a way to aggregate content from LAMs for access. While this is not a standards-based solution for describing our content, it is giving us a viable option for getting that description and our content out into the broader "flow" in a way that our community-based access solutions have not. This does not answer the question of which standards are the most appropriate for which materials but it is loosening the grip that access has over that decision. Mary W. Elings Archivist for Digital Collections The Bancroft Library University of California Berkeley, CA 94720-6000 melings*library.berkeley.edu Ph 510-643-2273 Fx 510-643-2548 At 10:13 AM 5/15/2009, Waibel,Guenter wrote: >Ken, I think what you're referring to is the >grid of standards I've often shown in the past, >which comes from an article Mary Elings and I wrote for FirstMonday. > >http://firstmonday.org/htbin/cgiwrap/bin/ojs/index.php/fm/article/viewArticle/1628/1543#e9 > >The article argues that we may be thinking about >our standards landscape to narrowly. Rather than >thinking about standards which emanated out of >one specific community as only being applicable >to that particular setting, we should think of >it as applying to a specific material type, >which can occur whether you're in a library, archive or museum. > >At the end of the day, I think it all boils down >to this question: which other materials do you >think you're materials should be able to >integrate with? If you think it's books, then >use a bibliographic standards. If you think it's >cultural objects, then use a standard >appropriate for that. If you think it's bulk >materials, then use an archival standard. > >For a typical museum collection with a focus on >individual objects, I wouldn't advocate the use >of EAD as a general solution. MOAC used EAD XML >for two primary reasons: 1. because there was no >XML schema for cultural objects at that point in >time, and 2. because the resource MOAC was >contributing to (the Online Archive of >California) only accepted EAD XML. It was a >pragmatic decision based on specific >circumstances, but now that we have data >exchange standards like CDWA Lite XML, that's >most likely the more appropriate choice for >cultural materials described at an item-level. > >I would also say that for certain types of >collections, museums may benefit from a >collection-level strategy just to get >information about the availability of materials >out there. The natural history community, for >example, created Natural Collections >Descriptions (NCD) for that precise purpose (see http://wiki.tdwg.org/NCD/). > >Cheers, > >G?nter > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu >[mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Hamma >Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:55 PM >To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums > >G?nter, > >Recalling a talk by you at IMLS in DC a couple of years ago, this >might be a time to talk a bit about cataloging for bibliographic, >unique works and heaps of unique works. And the use of the right tool >for the right material regardless of the museum - archive - library >designation? > >ken > >Kenneth Hamma > >+1 310 270 8008 >khamma at me.com > >368 Patel Place >Palm Springs CA 92264 > >On May 14, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Waibel,Guenter wrote: > > > EAD indeed is rarely used to describe museum collections, but it is > > used frequently in museum archives. The only project I am aware of > > that used EAD to describe museum object collections was Museums and > > the Online Archive of California (MOAC). You'll find a lot of > > documents related to this project at > http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/moac/classic/ > > , and a D-Lib article at > http://www.dlib.org/dlib/january03/rinehart/01rinehart.html > > . > > > > Cheers, > > > > G?nter Waibel > > OCLC Research > > voice: +1-650-287-2144 > > G?nter blogs at ... http://www.hangingtogether.org > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf > > Of Ethan Gruber > > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:05 AM > > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > > Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums > > > > Hi, > > > > I'm a developer in a library that deals with a lot of special > > collections > > objects. I've dealt with traditional museum-type objects, such as > > ancient > > coins and the challenges in providing access to them online. I used > > Encoded > > Archival Description (EAD) to describe them quite robustly in XML. > > This is > > a fairly standard schema in libraries, and I was wondering to what > > extent > > EAD is used by museums to describe their own collections. I have > > presented > > at two conferences in the last year (Archiving 2008 and Computer > > Applications in Archaeology in 2009) regarding EAD for numismatics, > > and I > > have received a number of comments that suggest EAD is rarely used > > in that > > capacity by museums, especially European ones. > > > > If anyone on this list can offer their insights into EAD in museums, > > I would > > appreciate it. For further reference, the project website is: > > http://coins.lib.virginia.edu/ and the documentation section has a > > draft of > > best practices guidelines and the powerpoint presentation I recently > > gave. > > > > Ethan Gruber > > University of Virginia Library > > _______________________________________________ > > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the >listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > >To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > >To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > >The MCN-L archives can be found at: >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the >listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > >To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > >To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > >The MCN-L archives can be found at: >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From ewg4xuva at gmail.com Fri May 15 11:12:21 2009 From: ewg4xuva at gmail.com (Ethan Gruber) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:12:21 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20090515102422.048ec628@library.berkeley.edu> References: <8FC3B991-0881-47B4-A151-F455545C5ECA@me.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20090515102422.048ec628@library.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: G?nter, I generally agree with that approach. People tend to think of EAD as an archival standard, but EAD is well-suited for describing "collections" of objects of any type--not just manuscripts, photographs, etc., as well as the individual objects themselves. A lot of museums think in terms of individual objects. Since I'm from a library, I tend to have a different concept of a "collection," and tried a different approach with coins. I think that out of all of the objects in the University of Virginia Art Museum, the coins were organized in the most EAD-compatible way to begin with. For example, there are about 600 coins the comprise of the total collection, but within this, the museum has several conceptual sub-collections under that, such as "The Mosberg Collection" or the "Oliver's Orchard Hoards," which can easily be described as a "series" level component as part of the in EAD. I met someone from the University of Granada, Spain a few months ago at the Computer Applications in Archaeology conference who presented on using EAD to describe imagery of architectural components. It's not that EAD can't be used for museum objects, but it would require a conceptual re-envisioning of the organization of a museum's holdings, which may be more trouble than it's worth for most institutions. VRA Core and CDWA are well-suited for the description of items, but I favor the robustness of EAD's contextual descriptors. Mary, If you are interested in cross-institutional aggregation, I highly recommend checking out Blacklight -> http://blacklightopac.org/ . It is an aggregation index and interface for all University of Virginia Library objects, whether it be physical collections like books or CDs, EAD finding aids, TEI documents, eletronic journals or photograph collections. It also includes each of the coins from the numismatic project and links back to their records on the coin website. Stanford's library is the first other institution to formally adopt blacklight. You can map any metadata format you can think of to its solr index--EAD, CDWA, MARC, you name it--and control how each of those content types is represented in the browser. My colleagues are doing exactly that for the Northwest Digital Archives right now. Best of all, it's opensource. I highly encourage you to take a look. There's a beta at http://virgobeta.lib.virginia.edu/ Ethan Addendum: If they would just loosen CDWA up a bit, I might be a little more interested in using it. Maybe I'm not familiar enough with it yet, but is there even to regularize names for authority purposes and indexing? If I encode the obverse and reverse legends of a coin with two Inscription elements and want index them separately, it doesn't seem like there is a way of giving the Inscription an attribute (like "type") that allows me to specify which one is obverse or reverse. On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM, M. Elings wrote: > The grid of standards G?nter mentioned is focused > on the cultural heritage community. While one can > argue that you should use the most appropriate > data standards for the materials being described, > the reality is that many of us are bound by the > standards (and tools that work those standards) > that facilitate access, such as the case G?nter > mentions wherein the aggregator only accepted > EAD. This is a localized issue but is one that > has hampered broader aggregation of resources > from LAMs (libraries, archives, and museums), > which is one of the reasons -- if I can use the > phrase -- the "silos of the LAMs" exist. > > I have often had the conversation about the need > for a community-neutral way to aggregate content > from seemingly disparate LAMs for access > purposes. And the fact that the solution is not > likely to come from any one of those communities > but from an uber-organization not invested in the > descriptive idiosyncracies our communities have > developed. To some extent, a solution has > arrived. The Commons on Flickr is providing a way > to aggregate content from LAMs for access. While > this is not a standards-based solution for > describing our content, it is giving us a viable > option for getting that description and our > content out into the broader "flow" in a way that > our community-based access solutions have not. > This does not answer the question of which > standards are the most appropriate for which > materials but it is loosening the grip that access has over that decision. > > Mary W. Elings > Archivist for Digital Collections > The Bancroft Library > University of California > Berkeley, CA 94720-6000 > melings*library.berkeley.edu > Ph 510-643-2273 > Fx 510-643-2548 > > > > At 10:13 AM 5/15/2009, Waibel,Guenter wrote: > >Ken, I think what you're referring to is the > >grid of standards I've often shown in the past, > >which comes from an article Mary Elings and I wrote for FirstMonday. > > > > > http://firstmonday.org/htbin/cgiwrap/bin/ojs/index.php/fm/article/viewArticle/1628/1543#e9 > > > >The article argues that we may be thinking about > >our standards landscape to narrowly. Rather than > >thinking about standards which emanated out of > >one specific community as only being applicable > >to that particular setting, we should think of > >it as applying to a specific material type, > >which can occur whether you're in a library, archive or museum. > > > >At the end of the day, I think it all boils down > >to this question: which other materials do you > >think you're materials should be able to > >integrate with? If you think it's books, then > >use a bibliographic standards. If you think it's > >cultural objects, then use a standard > >appropriate for that. If you think it's bulk > >materials, then use an archival standard. > > > >For a typical museum collection with a focus on > >individual objects, I wouldn't advocate the use > >of EAD as a general solution. MOAC used EAD XML > >for two primary reasons: 1. because there was no > >XML schema for cultural objects at that point in > >time, and 2. because the resource MOAC was > >contributing to (the Online Archive of > >California) only accepted EAD XML. It was a > >pragmatic decision based on specific > >circumstances, but now that we have data > >exchange standards like CDWA Lite XML, that's > >most likely the more appropriate choice for > >cultural materials described at an item-level. > > > >I would also say that for certain types of > >collections, museums may benefit from a > >collection-level strategy just to get > >information about the availability of materials > >out there. The natural history community, for > >example, created Natural Collections > >Descriptions (NCD) for that precise purpose (see > http://wiki.tdwg.org/NCD/). > > > >Cheers, > > > >G?nter > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu > >[mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Hamma > >Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:55 PM > >To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > >Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums > > > >G?nter, > > > >Recalling a talk by you at IMLS in DC a couple of years ago, this > >might be a time to talk a bit about cataloging for bibliographic, > >unique works and heaps of unique works. And the use of the right tool > >for the right material regardless of the museum - archive - library > >designation? > > > >ken > > > >Kenneth Hamma > > > >+1 310 270 8008 > >khamma at me.com > > > >368 Patel Place > >Palm Springs CA 92264 > > > >On May 14, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Waibel,Guenter wrote: > > > > > EAD indeed is rarely used to describe museum collections, but it is > > > used frequently in museum archives. The only project I am aware of > > > that used EAD to describe museum object collections was Museums and > > > the Online Archive of California (MOAC). You'll find a lot of > > > documents related to this project at > > http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/moac/classic/ > > > , and a D-Lib article at > > http://www.dlib.org/dlib/january03/rinehart/01rinehart.html > > > . > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > G?nter Waibel > > > OCLC Research > > > voice: +1-650-287-2144 > > > G?nter blogs at ... http://www.hangingtogether.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf > > > Of Ethan Gruber > > > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:05 AM > > > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > > > Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I'm a developer in a library that deals with a lot of special > > > collections > > > objects. I've dealt with traditional museum-type objects, such as > > > ancient > > > coins and the challenges in providing access to them online. I used > > > Encoded > > > Archival Description (EAD) to describe them quite robustly in XML. > > > This is > > > a fairly standard schema in libraries, and I was wondering to what > > > extent > > > EAD is used by museums to describe their own collections. I have > > > presented > > > at two conferences in the last year (Archiving 2008 and Computer > > > Applications in Archaeology in 2009) regarding EAD for numismatics, > > > and I > > > have received a number of comments that suggest EAD is rarely used > > > in that > > > capacity by museums, especially European ones. > > > > > > If anyone on this list can offer their insights into EAD in museums, > > > I would > > > appreciate it. For further reference, the project website is: > > > http://coins.lib.virginia.edu/ and the documentation section has a > > > draft of > > > best practices guidelines and the powerpoint presentation I recently > > > gave. > > > > > > Ethan Gruber > > > University of Virginia Library > > > _______________________________________________ > > > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > > > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > > > > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > > > > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > > > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > > > > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > > > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > > > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > > > > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > > > > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > > > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > > > > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > > > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > > >_______________________________________________ > >You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the > >listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > > >To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > > >To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > > >The MCN-L archives can be found at: > >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the > >listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > > >To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > > >To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > > >The MCN-L archives can be found at: > >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer > Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > From jana.hill at cartermuseum.org Fri May 15 12:43:48 2009 From: jana.hill at cartermuseum.org (JanaH) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:43:48 -0500 Subject: [MCN-L] Job posting: Interactive Developer @ Amon Carter Museum (TX) Message-ID: <49A6E411EE69EA4898AFA579D8A06DFC0216BFF8@exchange.cartermuseum.org> I'm posting this for another department, so please direct questions, resumes, etc. to will.gillham at cartermuseum.org. Deadline to apply is May 29. INTERACTIVE DEVELOPER needed to manage the Amon Carter Museum's Web site to optimize the online user experience. Reporting to the Director of Publications, the Interactive Developer will: * Assist in maintaining the institutional brand in electronic and media formats. * Support museum department managers with enhancements and maintenance of the Web site delivering the best possible interactive experiences. * Provide Web and new-media guidance and advise on related technology and the creative direction of the site. QUALIFICATIONS The successful candidate will: * Be proficient in back-end coding using Drupal (Drupal development and theming experience essential); solid understanding of site structure and interface design. LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, and PHP), XHTML, JavaScript, CSS also essential; jQuery desirable. * Have a working knowledge of Web imaging and multimedia authoring software (i.e., Photoshop, Fireworks, Flash, and/or other Web-authoring tools). Display an open-minded problem-solving attitude with excellent attention to detail and a willingness to learn. * Possess a minimum of three years experience managing projects and clients related to making standards-compliant and accessible Web sites. * Have a working knowledge of MS Office and proficiency with Mac OS X. * Be equipped to undertake major site design/redesign. * Have the ability to manage online databases. * Audio/visual skills (filming, editing) for video podcasts desirable; the ability to create online databases desirable. B.A. degree, art education and/or museum experience preferred. TO APPLY Please submit a CV, cover letter, salary history, and creative online portfolio URL to will.gillham at cartermuseum.org by May 29, 2009. Jana Hill Associate Registrar, Collection Information Amon Carter Museum 3501 Camp Bowie Blvd., Fort Worth, TX 76107 t. 817.989.5173 f. 817.989.5179 www.cartermuseum.org From melings at library.berkeley.edu Fri May 15 13:56:48 2009 From: melings at library.berkeley.edu (M. Elings) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 13:56:48 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20090515102422.048ec628@library.berkeley.edu> References: <8FC3B991-0881-47B4-A151-F455545C5ECA@me.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20090515102422.048ec628@library.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20090515132103.048e91c8@library.berkeley.edu> p.s. And, to date that content is only images... but that can change. The point is that it presents an interesting model. Flickr allows for description of provenance or thematic groupings -- in Commons parlance "collections" and "sets" -- as well as item level description. In this way, I can provide the collection-level context I want and the item-level description (if I have it). In addition, it provides us with a seemingly successful public-private partnership, one that gets LAM content in a venue with far greater "reach" than our community based presentations, and yet can still lead users back to our institutions (one of Ken's tenets). Oh yes, and did I mention that we get UGC in the mix? The Commons is by no means the ultimate solution to breaking down silos, rather it exists beyond our silos, letting us continue to use the standards that are appropriate to our materials and/or our localized presentations while also letting us play in a much bigger access venue than we could ever generate on our own. So, as long as it exists, the Commons may be just that, a place for LAMs to put up a selection of their holdings in a common format. At 10:50 AM 5/15/2009, M. Elings wrote: >The grid of standards G?nter mentioned is focused >on the cultural heritage community. While one can >argue that you should use the most appropriate >data standards for the materials being described, >the reality is that many of us are bound by the >standards (and tools that work those standards) >that facilitate access, such as the case G?nter >mentions wherein the aggregator only accepted >EAD. This is a localized issue but is one that >has hampered broader aggregation of resources >from LAMs (libraries, archives, and museums), >which is one of the reasons -- if I can use the >phrase -- the "silos of the LAMs" exist. > >I have often had the conversation about the need >for a community-neutral way to aggregate content >from seemingly disparate LAMs for access >purposes. And the fact that the solution is not >likely to come from any one of those communities >but from an uber-organization not invested in the >descriptive idiosyncracies our communities have >developed. To some extent, a solution has >arrived. The Commons on Flickr is providing a way >to aggregate content from LAMs for access. While >this is not a standards-based solution for >describing our content, it is giving us a viable >option for getting that description and our >content out into the broader "flow" in a way that >our community-based access solutions have not. >This does not answer the question of which >standards are the most appropriate for which >materials but it is loosening the grip that access has over that decision. > >Mary W. Elings >Archivist for Digital Collections >The Bancroft Library >University of California >Berkeley, CA 94720-6000 >melings*library.berkeley.edu >Ph 510-643-2273 >Fx 510-643-2548 > > > >At 10:13 AM 5/15/2009, Waibel,Guenter wrote: > >Ken, I think what you're referring to is the > >grid of standards I've often shown in the past, > >which comes from an article Mary Elings and I wrote for FirstMonday. > > > >http://firstmonday.org/htbin/cgiwrap/bin/ojs/in > dex.php/fm/article/viewArticle/1628/1543#e9 > > > >The article argues that we may be thinking about > >our standards landscape to narrowly. Rather than > >thinking about standards which emanated out of > >one specific community as only being applicable > >to that particular setting, we should think of > >it as applying to a specific material type, > >which can occur whether you're in a library, archive or museum. > > > >At the end of the day, I think it all boils down > >to this question: which other materials do you > >think you're materials should be able to > >integrate with? If you think it's books, then > >use a bibliographic standards. If you think it's > >cultural objects, then use a standard > >appropriate for that. If you think it's bulk > >materials, then use an archival standard. > > > >For a typical museum collection with a focus on > >individual objects, I wouldn't advocate the use > >of EAD as a general solution. MOAC used EAD XML > >for two primary reasons: 1. because there was no > >XML schema for cultural objects at that point in > >time, and 2. because the resource MOAC was > >contributing to (the Online Archive of > >California) only accepted EAD XML. It was a > >pragmatic decision based on specific > >circumstances, but now that we have data > >exchange standards like CDWA Lite XML, that's > >most likely the more appropriate choice for > >cultural materials described at an item-level. > > > >I would also say that for certain types of > >collections, museums may benefit from a > >collection-level strategy just to get > >information about the availability of materials > >out there. The natural history community, for > >example, created Natural Collections > >Descriptions (NCD) for that precise purpose (see http://wiki.tdwg.org/NCD/). > > > >Cheers, > > > >G?nter > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu > >[mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Hamma > >Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:55 PM > >To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > >Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums > > > >G?nter, > > > >Recalling a talk by you at IMLS in DC a couple of years ago, this > >might be a time to talk a bit about cataloging for bibliographic, > >unique works and heaps of unique works. And the use of the right tool > >for the right material regardless of the museum - archive - library > >designation? > > > >ken > > > >Kenneth Hamma > > > >+1 310 270 8008 > >khamma at me.com > > > >368 Patel Place > >Palm Springs CA 92264 > > > >On May 14, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Waibel,Guenter wrote: > > > > > EAD indeed is rarely used to describe museum collections, but it is > > > used frequently in museum archives. The only project I am aware of > > > that used EAD to describe museum object collections was Museums and > > > the Online Archive of California (MOAC). You'll find a lot of > > > documents related to this project at > > http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/moac/classic/ > > > , and a D-Lib article at > > http://www.dlib.org/dlib/january03/rinehart/01rinehart.html > > > . > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > G?nter Waibel > > > OCLC Research > > > voice: +1-650-287-2144 > > > G?nter blogs at ... http://www.hangingtogether.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf > > > Of Ethan Gruber > > > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:05 AM > > > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > > > Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I'm a developer in a library that deals with a lot of special > > > collections > > > objects. I've dealt with traditional museum-type objects, such as > > > ancient > > > coins and the challenges in providing access to them online. I used > > > Encoded > > > Archival Description (EAD) to describe them quite robustly in XML. > > > This is > > > a fairly standard schema in libraries, and I was wondering to what > > > extent > > > EAD is used by museums to describe their own collections. I have > > > presented > > > at two conferences in the last year (Archiving 2008 and Computer > > > Applications in Archaeology in 2009) regarding EAD for numismatics, > > > and I > > > have received a number of comments that suggest EAD is rarely used > > > in that > > > capacity by museums, especially European ones. > > > > > > If anyone on this list can offer their insights into EAD in museums, > > > I would > > > appreciate it. For further reference, the project website is: > > > http://coins.lib.virginia.edu/ and the documentation section has a > > > draft of > > > best practices guidelines and the powerpoint presentation I recently > > > gave. > > > > > > Ethan Gruber > > > University of Virginia Library > > > _______________________________________________ > > > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > > > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > > > > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > > > > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > > > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > > > > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > > > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > > > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > > > > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > > > > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > > > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > > > > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > > > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > > >_______________________________________________ > >You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the > >listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > > >To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > > >To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > > >The MCN-L archives can be found at: > >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the > >listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > > >To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > > >To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > > >The MCN-L archives can be found at: > >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the >listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > >To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > >To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > >The MCN-L archives can be found at: >http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From khamma at me.com Fri May 15 15:57:48 2009 From: khamma at me.com (Kenneth Hamma) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:57:48 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums In-Reply-To: References: <8FC3B991-0881-47B4-A151-F455545C5ECA@me.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20090515102422.048ec628@library.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <9686D84D-8EA7-46B3-A9F4-869D3F6B3A29@me.com> Part of this equation has to be that there still are physical collections with individual objects to be managed. Nearly all of the difference in cataloging approaches (standards, mechanics, habits, system support, etc.) has to do with that, but not with the projected online access, which if separated, as Mary Elings points out, permits a freedom to manage locally as one sees fit and provide digital access in as many ways as are beneficial. Multiple distribution channels are good; just because the physical thing might be a book doesn't mean its digital record and surrogate must live only in an OPAC. There are lots of other venues and protocols to be taken advantage of. ken Kenneth Hamma +1 310 270 8008 khamma at me.com 368 Patel Place Palm Springs CA 92264 On May 15, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Ethan Gruber wrote: > G?nter, > > I generally agree with that approach. People tend to think of EAD > as an > archival standard, but EAD is well-suited for describing > "collections" of > objects of any type--not just manuscripts, photographs, etc., as > well as the > individual objects themselves. A lot of museums think in terms of > individual objects. Since I'm from a library, I tend to have a > different > concept of a "collection," and tried a different approach with > coins. I > think that out of all of the objects in the University of Virginia Art > Museum, the coins were organized in the most EAD-compatible way to > begin > with. For example, there are about 600 coins the comprise of the > total > collection, but within this, the museum has several conceptual > sub-collections under that, such as "The Mosberg Collection" or the > "Oliver's Orchard Hoards," which can easily be described as a > "series" level > component as part of the in EAD. I met someone from the > University of > Granada, Spain a few months ago at the Computer Applications in > Archaeology > conference who presented on using EAD to describe imagery of > architectural > components. It's not that EAD can't be used for museum objects, but > it > would require a conceptual re-envisioning of the organization of a > museum's > holdings, which may be more trouble than it's worth for most > institutions. > VRA Core and CDWA are well-suited for the description of items, but > I favor > the robustness of EAD's contextual descriptors. > > Mary, > > If you are interested in cross-institutional aggregation, I highly > recommend > checking out Blacklight -> http://blacklightopac.org/ . It is an > aggregation index and interface for all University of Virginia Library > objects, whether it be physical collections like books or CDs, EAD > finding > aids, TEI documents, eletronic journals or photograph collections. > It also > includes each of the coins from the numismatic project and links > back to > their records on the coin website. Stanford's library is the first > other > institution to formally adopt blacklight. You can map any metadata > format > you can think of to its solr index--EAD, CDWA, MARC, you name it--and > control how each of those content types is represented in the > browser. My > colleagues are doing exactly that for the Northwest Digital Archives > right > now. Best of all, it's opensource. I highly encourage you to take > a look. > There's a beta at http://virgobeta.lib.virginia.edu/ > > Ethan > > > > Addendum: If they would just loosen CDWA up a bit, I might be a > little more > interested in using it. Maybe I'm not familiar enough with it yet, > but is > there even to regularize names for authority purposes and indexing? > If I > encode the obverse and reverse legends of a coin with two Inscription > elements and want index them separately, it doesn't seem like there > is a way > of giving the Inscription an attribute (like "type") that allows me to > specify which one is obverse or reverse. > > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM, M. Elings >wrote: > >> The grid of standards G?nter mentioned is focused >> on the cultural heritage community. While one can >> argue that you should use the most appropriate >> data standards for the materials being described, >> the reality is that many of us are bound by the >> standards (and tools that work those standards) >> that facilitate access, such as the case G?nter >> mentions wherein the aggregator only accepted >> EAD. This is a localized issue but is one that >> has hampered broader aggregation of resources >> from LAMs (libraries, archives, and museums), >> which is one of the reasons -- if I can use the >> phrase -- the "silos of the LAMs" exist. >> >> I have often had the conversation about the need >> for a community-neutral way to aggregate content >> from seemingly disparate LAMs for access >> purposes. And the fact that the solution is not >> likely to come from any one of those communities >> but from an uber-organization not invested in the >> descriptive idiosyncracies our communities have >> developed. To some extent, a solution has >> arrived. The Commons on Flickr is providing a way >> to aggregate content from LAMs for access. While >> this is not a standards-based solution for >> describing our content, it is giving us a viable >> option for getting that description and our >> content out into the broader "flow" in a way that >> our community-based access solutions have not. >> This does not answer the question of which >> standards are the most appropriate for which >> materials but it is loosening the grip that access has over that >> decision. >> >> Mary W. Elings >> Archivist for Digital Collections >> The Bancroft Library >> University of California >> Berkeley, CA 94720-6000 >> melings*library.berkeley.edu >> Ph 510-643-2273 >> Fx 510-643-2548 >> >> >> >> At 10:13 AM 5/15/2009, Waibel,Guenter wrote: >>> Ken, I think what you're referring to is the >>> grid of standards I've often shown in the past, >>> which comes from an article Mary Elings and I wrote for FirstMonday. >>> >>> >> http://firstmonday.org/htbin/cgiwrap/bin/ojs/index.php/fm/article/viewArticle/1628/1543#e9 >>> >>> The article argues that we may be thinking about >>> our standards landscape to narrowly. Rather than >>> thinking about standards which emanated out of >>> one specific community as only being applicable >>> to that particular setting, we should think of >>> it as applying to a specific material type, >>> which can occur whether you're in a library, archive or museum. >>> >>> At the end of the day, I think it all boils down >>> to this question: which other materials do you >>> think you're materials should be able to >>> integrate with? If you think it's books, then >>> use a bibliographic standards. If you think it's >>> cultural objects, then use a standard >>> appropriate for that. If you think it's bulk >>> materials, then use an archival standard. >>> >>> For a typical museum collection with a focus on >>> individual objects, I wouldn't advocate the use >>> of EAD as a general solution. MOAC used EAD XML >>> for two primary reasons: 1. because there was no >>> XML schema for cultural objects at that point in >>> time, and 2. because the resource MOAC was >>> contributing to (the Online Archive of >>> California) only accepted EAD XML. It was a >>> pragmatic decision based on specific >>> circumstances, but now that we have data >>> exchange standards like CDWA Lite XML, that's >>> most likely the more appropriate choice for >>> cultural materials described at an item-level. >>> >>> I would also say that for certain types of >>> collections, museums may benefit from a >>> collection-level strategy just to get >>> information about the availability of materials >>> out there. The natural history community, for >>> example, created Natural Collections >>> Descriptions (NCD) for that precise purpose (see >> http://wiki.tdwg.org/NCD/). >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> G?nter >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu >>> [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Hamma >>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:55 PM >>> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >>> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums >>> >>> G?nter, >>> >>> Recalling a talk by you at IMLS in DC a couple of years ago, this >>> might be a time to talk a bit about cataloging for bibliographic, >>> unique works and heaps of unique works. And the use of the right >>> tool >>> for the right material regardless of the museum - archive - library >>> designation? >>> >>> ken >>> >>> Kenneth Hamma >>> >>> +1 310 270 8008 >>> khamma at me.com >>> >>> 368 Patel Place >>> Palm Springs CA 92264 >>> >>> On May 14, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Waibel,Guenter wrote: >>> >>>> EAD indeed is rarely used to describe museum collections, but it is >>>> used frequently in museum archives. The only project I am aware of >>>> that used EAD to describe museum object collections was Museums and >>>> the Online Archive of California (MOAC). You'll find a lot of >>>> documents related to this project at >>> http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/moac/classic/ >>>> , and a D-Lib article at >>> http://www.dlib.org/dlib/january03/rinehart/01rinehart.html >>>> . >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> G?nter Waibel >>>> OCLC Research >>>> voice: +1-650-287-2144 >>>> G?nter blogs at ... http://www.hangingtogether.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Ethan Gruber >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:05 AM >>>> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >>>> Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I'm a developer in a library that deals with a lot of special >>>> collections >>>> objects. I've dealt with traditional museum-type objects, such as >>>> ancient >>>> coins and the challenges in providing access to them online. I >>>> used >>>> Encoded >>>> Archival Description (EAD) to describe them quite robustly in XML. >>>> This is >>>> a fairly standard schema in libraries, and I was wondering to what >>>> extent >>>> EAD is used by museums to describe their own collections. I have >>>> presented >>>> at two conferences in the last year (Archiving 2008 and Computer >>>> Applications in Archaeology in 2009) regarding EAD for numismatics, >>>> and I >>>> have received a number of comments that suggest EAD is rarely used >>>> in that >>>> capacity by museums, especially European ones. >>>> >>>> If anyone on this list can offer their insights into EAD in >>>> museums, >>>> I would >>>> appreciate it. For further reference, the project website is: >>>> http://coins.lib.virginia.edu/ and the documentation section has a >>>> draft of >>>> best practices guidelines and the powerpoint presentation I >>>> recently >>>> gave. >>>> >>>> Ethan Gruber >>>> University of Virginia Library >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum >>>> Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) >>>> >>>> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >>>> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l >>>> >>>> The MCN-L archives can be found at: >>>> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum >>>> Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) >>>> >>>> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >>>> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l >>>> >>>> The MCN-L archives can be found at: >>>> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the >>> listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) >>> >>> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu >>> >>> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >>> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l >>> >>> The MCN-L archives can be found at: >>> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the >>> listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) >>> >>> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu >>> >>> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >>> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l >>> >>> The MCN-L archives can be found at: >>> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum >> Computer >> Network (http://www.mcn.edu) >> >> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu >> >> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l >> >> The MCN-L archives can be found at: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ >> > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From JOttevanger at museumoflondon.org.uk Mon May 18 02:30:34 2009 From: JOttevanger at museumoflondon.org.uk (Ottevanger, Jeremy) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 10:30:34 +0100 Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums In-Reply-To: References: <8FC3B991-0881-47B4-A151-F455545C5ECA@me.com><7.0.1.0.2.20090515102422.048ec628@library.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: Ethan, you're right to point out Blacklight but more importantly Solr as a great solution to part of this equation - discovery of collections from mixed sources. I think the front-end, Blacklight, is not nearly as important as the Lucene-based Solr that underlies it, though. Having been recently converted to it I find myself amazed that there seems to be so little use of Solr in the museum world. Quite possibly I'm just ignorant of all the installations out there, but I think it should have been part of many more of the discussions I've had with my peers. For one thing (though it's off-topic) you get a decent API out of the box. OK, you'd probably want to build another layer on top but you wouldn't have to. I was introduced to Solr (and have since started to use it myself) through Europeana, which uses it right at the core. Europeana does indeed aggregate the records of archives, museums, libraries and audio-visual archives, but as you say, Ethan, it's still necessary to map to a common Solr index to search effectively. For Europeana all contributors map their data to a common set of fields, and this mapping is presumably always necessary at some point, whether your application accepts EAD and CDWALite etc at ingestion time, or whether insist that the mapping/harmonisation is done before you receive the records (as Europeana does, or at least will do). So I wouldn't have thought that Solr is an answer to this problem in itself - you have to do the mapping whichever way you look at it - but I would love to hear if and how other people have used it. It's too good to ignore, and perhaps there should be a museum/library/archive user community out there sharing good practice on questions like this. Cheers, Jeremy Jeremy Ottevanger Web Developer, Museum Systems Team Museum of London 46 Eagle Wharf Road London. N1 7ED Tel: 020 7410 2207 Fax: 020 7600 1058 Email: jottevanger at museumoflondon.org.uk www.museumoflondon.org.uk Museum of London is changing. Visit www.museumoflondon.org.uk to find out more. Explore how the Great Fire shaped the city www.museumoflondon.org.uk/londonsburning Before printing, please think about the environment -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Ethan Gruber Sent: 15 May 2009 19:12 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums Mary, If you are interested in cross-institutional aggregation, I highly recommend checking out Blacklight -> http://blacklightopac.org/ . It is an aggregation index and interface for all University of Virginia Library objects, whether it be physical collections like books or CDs, EAD finding aids, TEI documents, eletronic journals or photograph collections. It also includes each of the coins from the numismatic project and links back to their records on the coin website. Stanford's library is the first other institution to formally adopt blacklight. You can map any metadata format you can think of to its solr index--EAD, CDWA, MARC, you name it--and control how each of those content types is represented in the browser. My colleagues are doing exactly that for the Northwest Digital Archives right now. Best of all, it's opensource. I highly encourage you to take a look. There's a beta at http://virgobeta.lib.virginia.edu/ Ethan From ewg4xuva at gmail.com Mon May 18 07:33:23 2009 From: ewg4xuva at gmail.com (Ethan Gruber) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 10:33:23 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums In-Reply-To: References: <8FC3B991-0881-47B4-A151-F455545C5ECA@me.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20090515102422.048ec628@library.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: Jeremy, You're right. I have been using Solr for projects for about two years. It is increasingly common in libraries, but I'm not quite sure how well-known it is yet in the museum world. Perhaps others on the list can lend their insights into its use in museums. It's incredibly powerful, easy to customize, has a large support community, and scalable. The faceted search is quite nice also. The beta for blacklight currently has more than 4 million documents in the index. The U.Va. coin website I linked to earlier is built on top of Solr. In the two conferences I have attended to present on the project, the use of Solr to create a robust interface for browsing/searching the collection has been a major theme. Without it, I could not create a site in which the individual objects were so interlinked with each other. When creating an aggregate index, it helps to come up with a fairly generalized mapping. Blacklight's solr index allows for fields to be defined dynamically in the input documents, but there is a best practice for generalizing some of those fields. There is a Dublin Core-like approach to mapping different kinds of data--EAD, MARC, TEI, etc.--to the index. That is to say, each record has a title, format, possibly creators, subjects, dates, etc. The mapping from the source document to the search index isn't a complex one as long as there has been a fairly standardized approach to creating the source document. Most institutions have best practices guidelines for creating VRA Core or CDWA documents (I hope). As long as those collections have a consistent approach to encoding metadata, it is easy to create a crosswalk to the Solr index, but before creating an aggregation index, you do have to sit down and decide what you believe are the core fields necessary for finding objects and displaying some basic data in a user interface. The data from the coin collection is captured in two Solr indexes. One index is specific to the coin website and contains more than 40 fields, many of which are specific to numismatics. The other index is the blacklight beta index. I wrote the XSLT stylesheet that maps my adaptation of EAD for numismatics to the index that blacklight uses. Since blacklight allows me to define fields dynamically, I could have basically put the data in any way I wanted, but I knew I had to conform with the way other data was mapped in order to make it findable (there wasn't really documentation about what the core fields were at the time). Here's an example: http://virgobeta.lib.virginia.edu/catalog/n1989_19_14 Title, format, location, and subject were among the core fields. The others are more specific to coins and were defined in the index dynamically as displayable fields. So in summation, Solr is really useful for creating an aggregation index, but you have to take a firm approach to defining at least several fields that you believe are necessary for each object. Ethan On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 5:30 AM, Ottevanger, Jeremy < JOttevanger at museumoflondon.org.uk> wrote: > Ethan, you're right to point out Blacklight but more importantly Solr as > a great solution to part of this equation - discovery of collections > from mixed sources. I think the front-end, Blacklight, is not nearly as > important as the Lucene-based Solr that underlies it, though. Having > been recently converted to it I find myself amazed that there seems to > be so little use of Solr in the museum world. Quite possibly I'm just > ignorant of all the installations out there, but I think it should have > been part of many more of the discussions I've had with my peers. For > one thing (though it's off-topic) you get a decent API out of the box. > OK, you'd probably want to build another layer on top but you wouldn't > have to. > > I was introduced to Solr (and have since started to use it myself) > through Europeana, which uses it right at the core. Europeana does > indeed aggregate the records of archives, museums, libraries and > audio-visual archives, but as you say, Ethan, it's still necessary to > map to a common Solr index to search effectively. For Europeana all > contributors map their data to a common set of fields, and this mapping > is presumably always necessary at some point, whether your application > accepts EAD and CDWALite etc at ingestion time, or whether insist that > the mapping/harmonisation is done before you receive the records (as > Europeana does, or at least will do). > > So I wouldn't have thought that Solr is an answer to this problem in > itself - you have to do the mapping whichever way you look at it - but I > would love to hear if and how other people have used it. It's too good > to ignore, and perhaps there should be a museum/library/archive user > community out there sharing good practice on questions like this. > > Cheers, Jeremy > > > > Jeremy Ottevanger > Web Developer, Museum Systems Team > Museum of London > 46 Eagle Wharf Road > London. N1 7ED > Tel: 020 7410 2207 > Fax: 020 7600 1058 > Email: jottevanger at museumoflondon.org.uk > www.museumoflondon.org.uk > Museum of London is changing. Visit www.museumoflondon.org.uk to find out > more. > Explore how the Great Fire shaped the city > www.museumoflondon.org.uk/londonsburning > Before printing, please think about the environment > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of > Ethan Gruber > Sent: 15 May 2009 19:12 > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Encoded Archival Description in museums > > > > > Mary, > > If you are interested in cross-institutional aggregation, I highly > recommend > checking out Blacklight -> http://blacklightopac.org/ . It is an > aggregation index and interface for all University of Virginia Library > objects, whether it be physical collections like books or CDs, EAD > finding > aids, TEI documents, eletronic journals or photograph collections. It > also > includes each of the coins from the numismatic project and links back to > their records on the coin website. Stanford's library is the first > other > institution to formally adopt blacklight. You can map any metadata > format > you can think of to its solr index--EAD, CDWA, MARC, you name it--and > control how each of those content types is represented in the browser. > My > colleagues are doing exactly that for the Northwest Digital Archives > right > now. Best of all, it's opensource. I highly encourage you to take a > look. > There's a beta at http://virgobeta.lib.virginia.edu/ > > Ethan > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer > Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > From maburns at uci.edu Mon May 18 08:37:04 2009 From: maburns at uci.edu (Maureen Burns) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 08:37:04 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Fwd: MCN Liaison for ARLIS Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20090518083129.03c24020@uci.edu> Greetings MCNers, I've been trying to be a conduit of information between ARLIS and MCN for the last few years. As the ARLIS liaison to MCN, I forward information between the two listservs to share relevant postings related to annual meetings, activities, etc. looking for areas of overlap or commonality. Since I'm a member of both organizations and belong to both listserves, I'm happy to continue this work. However, since I have been doing this for a few years, if anyone else is interested in being the ARLIS liaison to MCN, I thought I would put this query out there. Please let me know if anyone might be interested and I will be happy to hook you up with the appropriate ARLIS Board members. Meanwhile, if you have any interesting ideas about how to better connect and communicate between ARLIS and MCN, they are welcome and I will continue to do this. Thank you. Best wishes, Maureen Maureen A. Burns, Ed.D. Humanities Curator Visual Resources Collection 61 Humanities Instructional Building University of California Irvine, CA 92697-3375 949-824-8027 phone 949-824-4298 fax MABURNS at UCI.EDU From jdvorak at heard.org Mon May 18 09:58:11 2009 From: jdvorak at heard.org (Jennifer Dvorak) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 09:58:11 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Virtualization Message-ID: Not sure if this has already been addressed, but have any of you recently virtualized any part of your network? I'm specifically interested in the use of VMWare. Any gotchas or lessons learned you'd like to share? Thanks, Jen Jennifer Dvorak | Heard Museum | Phoenix, AZ | www.heard.org | main 602.252.8840 | direct 602.251.0287 | mobile 602.930.3346 Help us raise money during these challenging times: go to http://myartscommunity.org/ and make a small donation to the Heard Museum. From SMoore at toledomuseum.org Mon May 18 10:27:37 2009 From: SMoore at toledomuseum.org (Sandy Moore) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 13:27:37 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Virtualization Message-ID: We are preparing to virtualize this summer with VMWare, so I'm interested too. Did anyone receive educational/non-profit pricing through VMWare? Thanks. Sandy Moore Toledo Museum of Art >>> jdvorak at heard.org 5/18/2009 12:58:11 PM >>> Not sure if this has already been addressed, but have any of you recently virtualized any part of your network? I'm specifically interested in the use of VMWare. Any gotchas or lessons learned you'd like to share? Thanks, Jen Jennifer Dvorak | Heard Museum | Phoenix, AZ | www.heard.org | main 602.252.8840 | direct 602.251.0287 | mobile 602.930.3346 Help us raise money during these challenging times: go to http://myartscommunity.org/ and make a small donation to the Heard Museum. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From rcherry at balboaparkonline.org Mon May 18 10:43:34 2009 From: rcherry at balboaparkonline.org (Rich Cherry) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 13:43:34 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Virtualization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0758790FE14FAD4FB84FE71572FD910C01C7A1DBD0@MAILR005.mail.lan> I have had great success using it at three museums and am getting ready to roll it out for my new organization. The only thing I would say is roll it out on really good hardware and do some testing on backup and recovery. Rich Cherry Director Balboa Park Online Collaborative A Project of the Benbough Operating Foundation 2131 Pan American Plz San Diego, CA 92101 B: (619) 819-8331 F: (619) 819-8230 rcherry at balboaparkonline.org -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Jennifer Dvorak Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:58 AM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: [MCN-L] Virtualization Not sure if this has already been addressed, but have any of you recently virtualized any part of your network? I'm specifically interested in the use of VMWare. Any gotchas or lessons learned you'd like to share? Thanks, Jen Jennifer Dvorak | Heard Museum | Phoenix, AZ | www.heard.org | main 602.252.8840 | direct 602.251.0287 | mobile 602.930.3346 Help us raise money during these challenging times: go to http://myartscommunity.org/ and make a small donation to the Heard Museum. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From rcherry at balboaparkonline.org Mon May 18 10:43:52 2009 From: rcherry at balboaparkonline.org (Rich Cherry) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 13:43:52 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Virtualization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0758790FE14FAD4FB84FE71572FD910C01C7A1DBD1@MAILR005.mail.lan> You can get some non-profit discount through the right third party... I suggest CDW Non Profit (who also supports MCN) Here is a contact: Constantine Hidalgo CDW Non Profit tineanddavid at cdw.com 866.875.4470 Good luck, Rich Cherry Director Balboa Park Online Collaborative A Project of the Benbough Operating Foundation 2131 Pan American Plz San Diego, CA 92101 B: (619) 819-8331 F: (619) 819-8230 rcherry at balboaparkonline.org -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Sandy Moore Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 10:28 AM To: jdvorak at heard.org; mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Virtualization We are preparing to virtualize this summer with VMWare, so I'm interested too. Did anyone receive educational/non-profit pricing through VMWare? Thanks. Sandy Moore Toledo Museum of Art >>> jdvorak at heard.org 5/18/2009 12:58:11 PM >>> Not sure if this has already been addressed, but have any of you recently virtualized any part of your network? I'm specifically interested in the use of VMWare. Any gotchas or lessons learned you'd like to share? Thanks, Jen Jennifer Dvorak | Heard Museum | Phoenix, AZ | www.heard.org | main 602.252.8840 | direct 602.251.0287 | mobile 602.930.3346 Help us raise money during these challenging times: go to http://myartscommunity.org/ and make a small donation to the Heard Museum. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From ewg4xuva at gmail.com Mon May 18 10:47:40 2009 From: ewg4xuva at gmail.com (Ethan Gruber) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 13:47:40 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Virtualization In-Reply-To: <0758790FE14FAD4FB84FE71572FD910C01C7A1DBD0@MAILR005.mail.lan> References: <0758790FE14FAD4FB84FE71572FD910C01C7A1DBD0@MAILR005.mail.lan> Message-ID: My institution now uses it for setting up development and testing environments, but minimizes its use in production environments because of performance issues. It's probably okay to use in most production environments, but I wouldn't recommend it for processor-intensive stuff, like jpeg2000 delivery. Ethan Gruber On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Rich Cherry wrote: > I have had great success using it at three museums and am getting ready to > roll it out for my new organization. The only thing I would say is roll it > out on really good hardware and do some testing on backup and recovery. > > > Rich Cherry > Director > Balboa Park Online Collaborative > A Project of the Benbough Operating Foundation > 2131 Pan American Plz > San Diego, CA 92101 > B: (619) 819-8331 > F: (619) 819-8230 > rcherry at balboaparkonline.org > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of > Jennifer Dvorak > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:58 AM > To: mcn-l at mcn.edu > Subject: [MCN-L] Virtualization > > Not sure if this has already been addressed, but have any of you > recently virtualized any part of your network? I'm specifically > interested in the use of VMWare. Any gotchas or lessons learned you'd > like to share? > > Thanks, > Jen > > Jennifer Dvorak | Heard Museum | Phoenix, AZ | www.heard.org | main > 602.252.8840 | direct 602.251.0287 | mobile 602.930.3346 > > Help us raise money during these challenging times: go to > http://myartscommunity.org/ and make a small donation to the Heard > Museum. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer > Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer > Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > From lharper at MAG.Rochester.edu Mon May 18 11:01:28 2009 From: lharper at MAG.Rochester.edu (Harper, Lucy) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 14:01:28 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] reporting bibliography out of collections management system Message-ID: Colleagues- I am considering creating a report to pull out bibliographic information on objects in our collection to load online via XML/XSLT on our collections website, and am wondering whether there are particular metadata standards that would be most appropriate to use. MODS/METS? Other suggestions? Lu Harper Librarian/Webmaster Memorial Art Gallery of the University of Rochester lharper at mag.rochester.edu http://mag.rochester.edu http://magart.rochester.edu (collections website) 585.276.8997 From dianezorich at comcast.net Mon May 18 12:20:26 2009 From: dianezorich at comcast.net (Diane M. Zorich) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 15:20:26 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Fwd: [Asis-l] Job Announcement: Metadata/Digital Content Specialists (Manhattan, NY) Message-ID: >Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 15:18:24 -0400 >Reply-To: Visual Resources Association >Sender: Visual Resources Association >From: "Joan B." >Subject: Fwd: [Asis-l] Job Announcement: Metadata/Digital Content >Specialists (Manhattan, NY) >To: VRA-L at LISTSERV.UARK.EDU >List-Help: , > >List-Unsubscribe: >List-Subscribe: >List-Owner: >List-Archive: > >Perhaps of interest to someone on the list? > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: Patty De Anda ><pdeanda at libraryassociates.com> >Date: Fri, May 15, 2009 at 9:10 PM >Subject: [Asis-l] Job Announcement: Metadata/Digital Content >Specialists (Manhattan, NY) >To: "asis-l at asis.org" ><asis-l at asis.org> > > >Library Associates Companies (LAC) seeks Metadata/Digital Content >Specialists for regular, full-time positions at a 24/7 media >organization located in Manhattan, NY. This position requires >previous experience working with digital information in several >different formats and media, metadata-tagging, working with >controlled vocabularies, and working in a very fast-paced >environment. In addition, pervious experience working in a media >environment is mandatory. Specialists will be responsible for 24/7 >coverage, and so flexible schedules and the ability to work >different shifts is required. Specialists will be responsible for >appropriately tagging media, pulling requested files/content, and >researching internal assets as requested. Experience with digital >asset management (DAM) and DAM systems is strongly preferred. > >To Apply: > >. For immediate consideration please email your resume and cover >letter to >jobs at libraryassociates.com. >. In Subject line of your email, reference "Metadata/Digital Content >Specialist #1221". > >Library Associates Companies is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative >Action employer that values diversity in the workforce. > > > > >Patty De Anda > >Communications & Projects Associate >Library Associates Companies / LAC >6500 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 2240 >Los Angeles, CA 90048 >800.987.6794 toll free >323.302.9439 local >323.852.1093 fax >www.libraryassociates.com >pdeanda at libraryassociates.com >LAC on Facebook >LAC on LinkedIn >Patty on Facebook > > >The information contained in this e-mail message is privileged, >confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the >intended recipient, any dissemination or copying is strictly >prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message >in error, please e-mail the sender. > > >________________________________________ >Asis-l mailing list >Asis-l at asis.org >http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/asis-l -- Diane M. Zorich 113 Gallup Road Princeton, NJ 08542 USA Voice: 609-252-1606 Email: dzorich at mindspring.com or dianezorich at comcast.net From akeshet at imj.org.il Mon May 18 23:20:38 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 08:20:38 +0200 Subject: [MCN-L] IP SIG: Dangermouse on blank CD Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4AB90FB6@mailsrv.imj.org.il> This is going to be fun: New Danger Mouse album to be released as CD-R -- blank CD-R Mon May 18, 2009 11:36AM EDT Nowhere in the world will you find more creativity than that of musicians who are taking old music, mixing it together, and coming up with something new. Danger Mouse took the mash-up mainstream with his watershed The Grey Album, the audacious 2004 blend of The Beatles'The White Album and Jay-Z's The Black Album, and since then the man has exploded into superstardom. The problem of course is that The Grey Album was totally illegal, and record label EMI (which owns the rights to The White Album) went to outrageous lengths to prevent its distribution. Those efforts failed, and the bootleg was copied far and wide and eventually earned it serious mainstream coverage (even lowest-common-denominator media ragEntertainment Weekly reviewed the album, giving it an A), despite the shaky legal footing the album sat on. Now, Danger Mouse -- after hitting the mainstream with his Gnarls Barkley act, among other projects -- is back with a new album, one which is set to be just as controversial. Citing his ongoing feud with EMI over the prior album, Danger Mouse's new Dark Night of the Soul will be released and sold exclusively as -- get this -- a blank CD-R. It will be up to the buyer to find the music through other means and burn it onto the CD. Per a statement from the Mouse: Danger Mouse's new project Dark Night Of The Soul consists of an album length piece of music by Danger Mouse, Sparklehorse and a host of guest vocalists, along with a collection of original David Lynch photography inspired by and based on the music. The photographs, which provide a visual narrative for the music, are compiled in a limited edition, hand numbered 100+ page book which will now come with a blank, recordable CD-R. All copies will be clearly labeled: 'For Legal Reasons, enclosed CD-R contains no music. Use it as you will.' From james.yoon at utoronto.ca Tue May 19 05:53:39 2009 From: james.yoon at utoronto.ca (James William Yoon) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 08:53:39 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Virtualization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6f0314650905190553pd9b4805r39071bdcbb84218c@mail.gmail.com> If cost is a key concern, an alternative option is to use Sun Microsystem's free and open source virtual machine software, VirtualBox ( http://www.virtualbox.org ), which competes in the same market. Also, depending on your needs and the size of your museum's IT infrastructure, VMWare Server or Microsoft Virtual PC might be a good way to go (or start): both are available for free, though not open source ( http://www.vmware.com/products/server/ , http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=04D26402-3199-48A3-AFA2-2DC0B40A73B6 ). James On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Sandy Moore wrote: > We are preparing to virtualize this summer with VMWare, so I'm > interested too. ?Did anyone receive educational/non-profit pricing > through VMWare? ?Thanks. > > Sandy Moore > Toledo Museum of Art > >>>> jdvorak at heard.org 5/18/2009 12:58:11 PM >>> > > Not sure if this has already been addressed, but have any of you > recently virtualized any part of your network? ?I'm specifically > interested in the use of VMWare. ?Any gotchas or lessons learned you'd > like to share? > > Thanks, > Jen > > Jennifer Dvorak | Heard Museum | Phoenix, AZ | www.heard.org | main > 602.252.8840 | direct 602.251.0287 | mobile 602.930.3346 > > Help us raise money during these challenging times: go to > http://myartscommunity.org/ and make a small donation to the Heard > Museum. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > From lesleyeharris at comcast.net Tue May 19 08:54:31 2009 From: lesleyeharris at comcast.net (Lesley Ellen Harris) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 11:54:31 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Licensing book signing and copyright courses in DC Message-ID: <43FDEC29-DC05-4A17-91B2-3F6A64206020@comcast.net> If you are attending SLA this year, mark on your calendars Lesley's book signing on Sunday June 14th at 4:30 in the Expo Hall -- for the 2nd ed of Licensing Digital Content: A Practical Guide for Librarians. See www.licensingdigitalcontent.blogspot.com. Also, consider the Certificate in Copyright Management which is a unique opportunity for special librarians and others in the U.S., Canada and around the world. It is offered jointly by SLA and Copyrightlaws.com and provides librarians, publishers and others with a Certificate to recognize their studies and practical exercises in practical copyright and licensing situations that arise in libraries and enterprises on a daily basis. Obtain a Certificate, get recognized for your knowledge and experience and receive IACET CEU credits for participating in any one or all of the 7 courses leading to this Certificate. The next in-person course is on 13 June from 8 am to 5 pm in Washington DC. It is on managing copyright issues. You will learn how to avoid law suits, lower your copyright risk management, how to legally obtain and organize your copyright permissions, the role of copyright collectives such as the CCC, working with license agreements, monitoring uses of content and dealing with an infringement accusation. Guest speakers will allow the opportunity to ask your specific questions to people in key copyright positions in copyright collectives and vendors. Learn more & register for CCM600. The following in-person course is on 14 June from 8 am to 4 pm in Washington DC. It is on enterprise-wide copyright education. You will learn how to implement copyright education in your enterprise and ensure that copyright compliance is a key priority. There is an opportunity to develop your own copyright education plan. Learn more & register for CCM700. Both of these courses are practical and hands-on and will bring your knowledge to the next level. Who is eligible to attend the Certificate courses? Information professionals in all libraries who acquire, use, distribute and access content, as well as those who create and publish content. Info at www.clickuniversity.com or email Shelva Suggs at ssuggs at sla.org. Instructor is: Lesley Ellen Harris, Info Rights columnist for SLA?s Information Outlook. Visit her site athttp://copyrightlaws.com or her blog at www.copyrightanswers.blogspot.com. From mhk at uchicago.edu Tue May 19 11:40:23 2009 From: mhk at uchicago.edu (Melissa Kinkley) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:40:23 -0500 Subject: [MCN-L] Who manages your social media presence? Message-ID: Dear all, In your museum, does your PR/Marketing staff manage your presence on flickr, youtube, facebook, your blogs, etc. or someone else? If you have one, how does your New Media team interface with PR/Marketing? Thanks, Melissa Melissa H. Kinkley Manager of New Media & Family Interpretation Smart Museum of Art University of Chicago? 5550 S. Greenwood Ave. Chicago, IL 60637 ph. 773.702.2362 fax 773.702.3121 http://smartmuseum.uchicago.edu From stanorchard at mac.com Tue May 19 11:53:13 2009 From: stanorchard at mac.com (Stan Orchard) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 11:53:13 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Who manages your social media presence? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At Pacific Science Center, Marketing handles Twitter, one of our blogs, YouTube, Flickr, Yelp, and our site. We also have several Facebook pages. Marketing is involved with all of them but a few people from education also contribute. We do a monthly 21+ event and the three people involved with that (Group Sales) maintain a MySpace page for it. And we have a new blog for our Life Sciences Dept. One of our volunteers posts to that (she's a photographer) though Marketing maintains the blog. We have no New Media Team per se. Marketing now includes all of the above so it's just part of what we do. Stan Orchard Web Publisher Pacific Science Center On May 19, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Melissa Kinkley wrote: > Dear all, > In your museum, does your PR/Marketing staff manage your presence on > flickr, > youtube, facebook, your blogs, etc. or someone else? If you have > one, how > does your New Media team interface with PR/Marketing? > > Thanks, > Melissa > > > Melissa H. Kinkley > Manager of New Media & Family Interpretation > > Smart Museum of Art > University of Chicago > 5550 S. Greenwood Ave. > Chicago, IL 60637 > ph. 773.702.2362 > fax 773.702.3121 > > http://smartmuseum.uchicago.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From g.durbin at vam.ac.uk Wed May 20 00:55:34 2009 From: g.durbin at vam.ac.uk (Gail Durbin) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 08:55:34 +0100 Subject: [MCN-L] Who manages your social media presence? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A13C587.A9F8.0072.0@vam.ac.uk> At the V&A Marketing deals with what I would describe as the Marketing sites - Facebook, Twitter - and the Online Museum (web team) deals, together with Learning and Interpretation or relevant curatorial department, with Flickr, blogs, user generated content and other social media. We see social media as an important part of our web development. Gail Durbin Head of V&A Online >>> Melissa Kinkley 19 May 2009 >>> Dear all, In your museum, does your PR/Marketing staff manage your presence on flickr, youtube, facebook, your blogs, etc. or someone else? If you have one, how does your New Media team interface with PR/Marketing? Thanks, Melissa Melissa H. Kinkley Manager of New Media & Family Interpretation Smart Museum of Art University of Chicago 5550 S. Greenwood Ave. Chicago, IL 60637 ph. 773.702.2362 fax 773.702.3121 http://smartmuseum.uchicago.edu _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ Baroque: Style in the Age of Magnificence Supported by the V&A Director's Circle Until 19 July 2009 at V&A South Kensington Book now on www.vam.ac.uk Snozzcumbers and Frobscottle! - The Wonderful World of Roald Dahl and Quentin Blake 2 May - 6 September 2009 at the V&A Museum of Childhood Admission Free Keep in touch - visit www.vam.ac.uk and sign up for our regular e-newsletter - --------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is confidential and intended only for the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, or responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or disclosure of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by telephone on 020 7942 2353. This message has been scanned for viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. From amarshal at heard.org Wed May 20 00:52:19 2009 From: amarshal at heard.org (Ann Marshall) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 00:52:19 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Who manages your social media presence? (Out Of Office) Message-ID: I am out of the office and will return on May 26. From A-Newman at NGA.GOV Wed May 20 13:12:17 2009 From: A-Newman at NGA.GOV (Newman, Alan) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 16:12:17 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Image Sizes (later Image Theft) In-Reply-To: <4A0059F9.65B4.001D.0@getty.edu> Message-ID: Nik, Matt, Ken, Nancy, Mike et al, Here's another music model --- from Radiohead (quoting from Wikipedia") "Radiohead's seventh album, In Rainbows, was released through the band's own website on 10 October 2007 as a digital download for which customers could make whatever payment that they wanted, including nothing; the site only advised, "it's up to you".[46] Following the band's sudden announcement 10 days beforehand, Radiohead's unusual strategy received much notice within the music industry and beyond.[47] 1.2 million downloads were reportedly sold by the day of release,[48] but the band's management did not release official sales figures, claiming that the Internet-only distribution was intended to boost later retail sales." So we adopt a museum convention in use at the Met and elsewhere for admissions: pay what you can afford for images. What could be more fair? What could draw more attention to our collections? Who knows, this might be the answer to Mariet Westermann's recommendation to streamline image licensing. When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art. As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Nik, wish me luck getting this through. Alan Newman On 5/5/09 6:23 PM, "Nik Honeysett" wrote: > This reminds me of a classic example in the music industry in the early 90's. > Blue Note Record's legal team came across a 12" single called "The Band Played > the Boogie" featuring an illegal sampling of Grant Green's "Sookie Sookie", > enjoying a huge underground following. Rather than pursue a suit, Blue Note > hired the group and gave them access to their full back catalogue. The > resulting release was Blue Note's first platinum-selling album (Us3 - Hand on > the Torch). So, put your images out there, wait for someone to figure out > how to make money from them, then hire them. (wish me luck with getting that > through our general counsel). -nik From ddennehy at artsmia.org Wed May 20 13:38:21 2009 From: ddennehy at artsmia.org (Daniel Dennehy) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:38:21 -0500 Subject: [MCN-L] mcn-l Digest, Vol 44, Issue 18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A1423ED.9364.000B.0@artsmia.org> MIA has a Brand Communications Specialist who overseas social media initiatives. However, many people across departments contribute content regularly to specific sites. For example, our assistant photographer organizes the Flickr site and uploads images of events and such. Dan Dennehy Head of Visual Resources Minneapolis Institute of Arts 2400 Third Avenue South Minneapolis, MN 55416 (612) 870 6336 www.artsmia.org >>> 5/20/2009 2:00 PM >>> Send mcn-l mailing list submissions to mcn-l at mcn.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mcn-l-request at mcn.edu You can reach the person managing the list at mcn-l-owner at mcn.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of mcn-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Who manages your social media presence? (Gail Durbin) 2. Re: Who manages your social media presence? (Out Of Office) (Ann Marshall) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 08:55:34 +0100 From: "Gail Durbin" Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Who manages your social media presence? To: "mcn-l at mcn.edu" Message-ID: <4A13C587.A9F8.0072.0 at vam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII At the V&A Marketing deals with what I would describe as the Marketing sites - Facebook, Twitter - and the Online Museum (web team) deals, together with Learning and Interpretation or relevant curatorial department, with Flickr, blogs, user generated content and other social media. We see social media as an important part of our web development. Gail Durbin Head of V&A Online >>> Melissa Kinkley 19 May 2009 >>> Dear all, In your museum, does your PR/Marketing staff manage your presence on flickr, youtube, facebook, your blogs, etc. or someone else? If you have one, how does your New Media team interface with PR/Marketing? Thanks, Melissa Melissa H. Kinkley Manager of New Media & Family Interpretation Smart Museum of Art University of Chicago 5550 S. Greenwood Ave. Chicago, IL 60637 ph. 773.702.2362 fax 773.702.3121 http://smartmuseum.uchicago.edu _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ Baroque: Style in the Age of Magnificence Supported by the V&A Director's Circle Until 19 July 2009 at V&A South Kensington Book now on www.vam.ac.uk Snozzcumbers and Frobscottle! - The Wonderful World of Roald Dahl and Quentin Blake 2 May - 6 September 2009 at the V&A Museum of Childhood Admission Free Keep in touch - visit www.vam.ac.uk and sign up for our regular e-newsletter - --------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is confidential and intended only for the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, or responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or disclosure of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by telephone on 020 7942 2353. This message has been scanned for viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 00:52:19 -0700 From: "Ann Marshall" Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Who manages your social media presence? (Out Of Office) To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I am out of the office and will return on May 26. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ mcn-l mailing list mcn-l at mcn.edu http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l End of mcn-l Digest, Vol 44, Issue 18 ************************************* From virginiarutledge at yahoo.com Wed May 20 13:51:36 2009 From: virginiarutledge at yahoo.com (Virginia Rutledge) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [MCN-L] Image Sizes (later Image Theft) Message-ID: <180686.28336.qm@web39707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Just a cheer in support of creative thinking! And of course, creative lawyering. Best regards, Virginia Special Counsel, Creative Commons Chair, Art Law Committee, New York City Bar Association --- On Wed, 5/20/09, Newman, Alan wrote: From: Newman, Alan Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes (later Image Theft) To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 1:12 PM Nik, Matt, Ken, Nancy, Mike et al, Here's another music model --- from Radiohead (quoting from Wikipedia") "Radiohead's seventh album, In Rainbows, was released through the band's own website on 10 October 2007 as a digital download for which customers could make whatever payment that they wanted, including nothing; the site only advised, "it's up to you".[46] Following the band's sudden announcement 10 days beforehand, Radiohead's unusual strategy received much notice within the music industry and beyond.[47] 1.2 million downloads were reportedly sold by the day of release,[48] but the band's management did not release official sales figures, claiming that the Internet-only distribution was intended to boost later retail sales." So we adopt a museum convention in use at the Met and elsewhere for admissions: pay what you can afford for images. What could be more fair? What could draw more attention to our collections? Who knows, this might be the answer to Mariet Westermann's recommendation to streamline image licensing. When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art. As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Nik, wish me luck getting this through. Alan Newman On 5/5/09 6:23 PM, "Nik Honeysett" wrote: > This reminds me of a classic example in the music industry in the early 90's. > Blue Note Record's legal team came across a 12" single called "The Band Played > the Boogie" featuring an illegal sampling of Grant Green's "Sookie Sookie", > enjoying a huge underground following. Rather than pursue a suit, Blue Note > hired the group and gave them access to their full back catalogue. The > resulting release was Blue Note's first platinum-selling album (Us3 - Hand on > the Torch). So, put your images out there, wait for someone to figure out > how to make money from them, then hire them. (wish me luck with getting that > through our general counsel). -nik _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From dbenavraham at newmuseum.org Wed May 20 15:06:58 2009 From: dbenavraham at newmuseum.org (Doron Ben-Avraham) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 18:06:58 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Virtualization woes References: Message-ID: <2F26D29C50CB2843BC777C02AA16ABB27446B4@new-sv-003.newmuseum.org> the subject keeps coming up for obvious reasons, the demonstrated ability of virutalization to cut costs, and insure availability is of great interest to any cultural institution. In the processes of evaluating the museum requirements in an economic climate that requires much prudence. I am wondering if we can attempt to create a common pressure (or a coordinated better deal). if you are considering this, please contact me, perhaps we might gain traction through a common reseller. I am at present considering virtualizing our environment using Microsoft products, I dont think they have achieved the maturity vmware demonstrates, but they are very fast to adapt, and very aggressive in development and pricing (Microsoft offers very generous benefits as you all know). VMware however... is nowhere to be found, and i am under the impression that the pricing and licensing models they offer are designed to obfuscate a very expensive future upgrade path. I am in favor of VMware as my first choice, based on my impressions of the technology, but i really cannot justify such sharp developments, the pricing model i see insures no easy path to upgrade in the future. With a very aggressive competitor (probably the most aggressive out there) behind them, I find it really strange VMware does not even attempt to bend towards cultural institutions and other non profits, its strangely shortsighted. Doron From dpmarsh at telus.net Wed May 20 15:50:07 2009 From: dpmarsh at telus.net (David Marsh) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:50:07 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Virtualization woes In-Reply-To: <2F26D29C50CB2843BC777C02AA16ABB27446B4@new-sv-003.newmuseum.org> Message-ID: <001401c9d99d$5609de70$0f01a8c0@spacecentre.ca> I appreciate your position. I find the free VMWare server immensely useful, particularly for really small non-profits, but an affordable path to infrastructure seems less obvious. VMWare server and an external drive bay with a drive drawer fitted allows a really cheap, simple and robust disaster recovery solution for a one or two server LAN. I'm accustomed to $200 windows server licenses (TechSoup) and at the moment I'm only using VMWare Server on this platform. I'm planning to take a look at Hypervisor as an alternative to a windows host but I have not found the time yet. I'd love to see VMWare compete with Microsofts generosity to non-profits (although give them full credit for making VMWare server free). D =========================================== David Marsh Chief Technician & System Administrator H.R. MacMillan Space Centre 1100 Chestnut Street, Vancouver, BC V6J 3J9 E sysadmin at hrmacmillanspacecentre.com T (604) 738 7827 ext. 229 C (604) 813 9667 F (604) 736 5665 =========================================== -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Doron Ben-Avraham Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:07 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: [MCN-L] Virtualization woes the subject keeps coming up for obvious reasons, the demonstrated ability of virutalization to cut costs, and insure availability is of great interest to any cultural institution. In the processes of evaluating the museum requirements in an economic climate that requires much prudence. I am wondering if we can attempt to create a common pressure (or a coordinated better deal). if you are considering this, please contact me, perhaps we might gain traction through a common reseller. I am at present considering virtualizing our environment using Microsoft products, I dont think they have achieved the maturity vmware demonstrates, but they are very fast to adapt, and very aggressive in development and pricing (Microsoft offers very generous benefits as you all know). VMware however... is nowhere to be found, and i am under the impression that the pricing and licensing models they offer are designed to obfuscate a very expensive future upgrade path. I am in favor of VMware as my first choice, based on my impressions of the technology, but i really cannot justify such sharp developments, the pricing model i see insures no easy path to upgrade in the future. With a very aggressive competitor (probably the most aggressive out there) behind them, I find it really strange VMware does not even attempt to bend towards cultural institutions and other non profits, its strangely shortsighted. Doron From hanan at mada.org.il Wed May 20 23:43:00 2009 From: hanan at mada.org.il (Hanan Cohen) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 09:43:00 +0300 Subject: [MCN-L] Who manages your social media presence? References: Message-ID: <38A562F9B9615940BD347797ACD838C83EA90C@server.mada.com> Shalom, I am the Webmaster, Photographer, Videographer, Youtuber, Facebooker and Twitterer. In a short while I will also be the Museum Blogger. The head of PR sits a few tabels away from mine. The museum director sits a few tables away from her. I overhear what's happening in the office (open space!) and update everything accordingly. --- Hanan Cohen Webmaster Bloomfield Science Museum Jerusalem http://mada.org.il/en -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Melissa Kinkley Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:40 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: [MCN-L] Who manages your social media presence? Dear all, In your museum, does your PR/Marketing staff manage your presence on flickr, youtube, facebook, your blogs, etc. or someone else? If you have one, how does your New Media team interface with PR/Marketing? Thanks, Melissa Melissa H. Kinkley Manager of New Media & Family Interpretation Smart Museum of Art University of Chicago 5550 S. Greenwood Ave. Chicago, IL 60637 ph. 773.702.2362 fax 773.702.3121 http://smartmuseum.uchicago.edu _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From akeshet at imj.org.il Thu May 21 01:26:51 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 10:26:51 +0200 Subject: [MCN-L] =?windows-1255?q?=FE=FERE=3A__Image_Sizes_=28later_Image_?= =?windows-1255?q?Theft=29?= In-Reply-To: <180686.28336.qm@web39707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <180686.28336.qm@web39707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4ABB91C0@mailsrv.imj.org.il> "When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art." Trivial costs? Not according to our CIO. I'm struggling to get something like this online, due to the sheer cost, which is most certainly not paid for by "the people's money". And we need to remember that people aren't paying for "images of public domain art" (an abstract) but for image files + delivery + service. "As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Perhaps the V&A is a fully-government-funded institution (with a very active commercial branch, V&A Enterprises, Ltd., to help support it -- including an excellent for-payment picture library). But not so my non-government-funded institution. We literally do not have a photography budget. High-quality images are paid for by individual exhibition catalog budgets, which are fully funded by private donations. Amalyah Keshet Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management The Israel Museum, Jerusalem ________________________________________ ? From: Newman, Alan Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes (later Image Theft) To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 1:12 PM Nik, Matt, Ken, Nancy, Mike et al, Here's another music model --- from Radiohead (quoting from Wikipedia") "Radiohead's seventh album, In Rainbows, was released through the band's own website on 10 October 2007 as a digital download for which customers could make whatever payment that they wanted, including nothing; the site only advised, "it's up to you".[46] Following the band's sudden announcement 10 days beforehand, Radiohead's unusual strategy received much notice within the music industry and beyond.[47] 1.2 million downloads were reportedly sold by the day of release,[48] but the band's management did not release official sales figures, claiming that the Internet-only distribution was intended to boost later retail sales." So we adopt a museum convention in use at the Met and elsewhere for admissions: pay what you can afford for images. What could be more fair? What could draw more attention to our collections? Who knows, this might be the answer to Mariet Westermann's recommendation to streamline image licensing. When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art. As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Nik, wish me luck getting this through. Alan Newman On 5/5/09 6:23 PM, "Nik Honeysett" wrote: > This reminds me of a classic example in the music industry in the early 90's. > Blue Note Record's legal team came across a 12" single called "The Band Played > the Boogie" featuring an illegal sampling of Grant Green's "Sookie Sookie", > enjoying a huge underground following. Rather than pursue a suit, Blue Note > hired the group and gave them access to their full back catalogue. The > resulting release was Blue Note's first platinum-selling album (Us3 - Hand on > the Torch). So, put your images out there, wait for someone to figure out > how to make money from them, then hire them. (wish me luck with getting that > through our general counsel). -nik _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From akeshet at netvision.net.il Thu May 21 03:28:26 2009 From: akeshet at netvision.net.il (Amalyah Keshet) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:28:26 +0200 Subject: [MCN-L] IP SIG: Danger Mouse Releases a Blank CD-R - legal or inducement to infringement? Message-ID: <4A152CCA.1090701@netvision.net.il> "Danger Mouse's new project Dark Night Of The Soul consists of an album length piece of music by Danger Mouse, Sparklehorse and a host of guest vocalists, along with a collection of original David Lynch photography inspired by and based on the music. The photographs, which provide a visual narrative for the music, are compiled in a limited edition, hand numbered 100+ page book which will now come with a blank, recordable CD-R. All copies will be clearly labeled: "For Legal Reasons, enclosed CD-R contains no music. Use it as you will." "Here's where an interesting copyright law wrinkle might step in -- if the blank CD-R is a royalty-paid "music CD-R," then the copies made by fans (whether made from NPR or P2P) would be legal under 17 U.S.C. 1008 , which provides that no infringement lawsuit may be "based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of [a digital audio recording] medium for making digital musical recordings." Digital audio recording medium (DARM) is defined to include "music CD-Rs" on which a royalty is paid to copyright owners." http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/05/danger-mouse-inducem No less interesting is the fact that this nose-thumbing blank CD is supplied together with a presumably tightly-copyrighted limited edition book of photographs. Amalyah Keshet From A-Newman at NGA.GOV Thu May 21 05:17:03 2009 From: A-Newman at NGA.GOV (Newman, Alan) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 08:17:03 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) References: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4ABB91C0@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Message-ID: <6CEED63FF7AF5A4FA7C39551EAD89A1A01FB1AF3@SV-MAIL-TDP.NGA.GOV> Hi Amalyah, My point was that after the build the maintenance costs are trivial to keep the self-serve part of the system going. There is only automated file delivery and no human service...for that part of the program. The main question, debated here often, is whether this should be mission-driven public policy rather than thought off as a crucial revenue stream. In my imaginary proposal you get both. Alan -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] Sent: Thu 5/21/2009 4:26 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) "When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art." Trivial costs? Not according to our CIO. I'm struggling to get something like this online, due to the sheer cost, which is most certainly not paid for by "the people's money". And we need to remember that people aren't paying for "images of public domain art" (an abstract) but for image files + delivery + service. "As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Perhaps the V&A is a fully-government-funded institution (with a very active commercial branch, V&A Enterprises, Ltd., to help support it -- including an excellent for-payment picture library). But not so my non-government-funded institution. We literally do not have a photography budget. High-quality images are paid for by individual exhibition catalog budgets, which are fully funded by private donations. Amalyah Keshet Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management The Israel Museum, Jerusalem ________________________________________ ? From: Newman, Alan Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes (later Image Theft) To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 1:12 PM Nik, Matt, Ken, Nancy, Mike et al, Here's another music model --- from Radiohead (quoting from Wikipedia") "Radiohead's seventh album, In Rainbows, was released through the band's own website on 10 October 2007 as a digital download for which customers could make whatever payment that they wanted, including nothing; the site only advised, "it's up to you".[46] Following the band's sudden announcement 10 days beforehand, Radiohead's unusual strategy received much notice within the music industry and beyond.[47] 1.2 million downloads were reportedly sold by the day of release,[48] but the band's management did not release official sales figures, claiming that the Internet-only distribution was intended to boost later retail sales." So we adopt a museum convention in use at the Met and elsewhere for admissions: pay what you can afford for images. What could be more fair? What could draw more attention to our collections? Who knows, this might be the answer to Mariet Westermann's recommendation to streamline image licensing. When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art. As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Nik, wish me luck getting this through. Alan Newman On 5/5/09 6:23 PM, "Nik Honeysett" wrote: > This reminds me of a classic example in the music industry in the early 90's. > Blue Note Record's legal team came across a 12" single called "The Band Played > the Boogie" featuring an illegal sampling of Grant Green's "Sookie Sookie", > enjoying a huge underground following. Rather than pursue a suit, Blue Note > hired the group and gave them access to their full back catalogue. The > resulting release was Blue Note's first platinum-selling album (Us3 - Hand on > the Torch). So, put your images out there, wait for someone to figure out > how to make money from them, then hire them. (wish me luck with getting that > through our general counsel). -nik _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From DWellford at moc.org Thu May 21 06:45:14 2009 From: DWellford at moc.org (Drury Wellford) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 09:45:14 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] =?windows-1255?q?=FE=FERE=3A__Image_Sizes_=28later_Image_?= =?windows-1255?q?Theft=29?= In-Reply-To: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4ABB91C0@mailsrv.imj.org.il> References: <180686.28336.qm@web39707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4ABB91C0@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Message-ID: <02D2744AD2AB4645BE301A91328D3A2C1CAC10@MOCMAIN.moc.org.local> We have the same problem in our little institution. Ann Drury Wellford Photo Services Manager The Museum of the Confederacy 1201 East Clay Street Richmond, VA 23219 Phone: (804) 649-1861 x17 Fax: (804) 644-7150 www.moc.org -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:27 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) "When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art." Trivial costs? Not according to our CIO. I'm struggling to get something like this online, due to the sheer cost, which is most certainly not paid for by "the people's money". And we need to remember that people aren't paying for "images of public domain art" (an abstract) but for image files + delivery + service. "As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Perhaps the V&A is a fully-government-funded institution (with a very active commercial branch, V&A Enterprises, Ltd., to help support it -- including an excellent for-payment picture library). But not so my non-government-funded institution. We literally do not have a photography budget. High-quality images are paid for by individual exhibition catalog budgets, which are fully funded by private donations. Amalyah Keshet Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management The Israel Museum, Jerusalem ________________________________________ ? From: Newman, Alan Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes (later Image Theft) To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 1:12 PM Nik, Matt, Ken, Nancy, Mike et al, Here's another music model --- from Radiohead (quoting from Wikipedia") "Radiohead's seventh album, In Rainbows, was released through the band's own website on 10 October 2007 as a digital download for which customers could make whatever payment that they wanted, including nothing; the site only advised, "it's up to you".[46] Following the band's sudden announcement 10 days beforehand, Radiohead's unusual strategy received much notice within the music industry and beyond.[47] 1.2 million downloads were reportedly sold by the day of release,[48] but the band's management did not release official sales figures, claiming that the Internet-only distribution was intended to boost later retail sales." So we adopt a museum convention in use at the Met and elsewhere for admissions: pay what you can afford for images. What could be more fair? What could draw more attention to our collections? Who knows, this might be the answer to Mariet Westermann's recommendation to streamline image licensing. When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art. As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Nik, wish me luck getting this through. Alan Newman On 5/5/09 6:23 PM, "Nik Honeysett" wrote: > This reminds me of a classic example in the music industry in the early 90's. > Blue Note Record's legal team came across a 12" single called "The Band Played > the Boogie" featuring an illegal sampling of Grant Green's "Sookie Sookie", > enjoying a huge underground following. Rather than pursue a suit, Blue Note > hired the group and gave them access to their full back catalogue. The > resulting release was Blue Note's first platinum-selling album (Us3 - Hand on > the Torch). So, put your images out there, wait for someone to figure out > how to make money from them, then hire them. (wish me luck with getting that > through our general counsel). -nik _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From akeshet at imj.org.il Thu May 21 08:18:19 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 17:18:19 +0200 Subject: [MCN-L] =?windows-1255?b?/v5SRTogID8/UkU6ICBJbWFnZSBTaXplcyAobGF0?= =?windows-1255?q?er_Image_Theft=29?= In-Reply-To: <6CEED63FF7AF5A4FA7C39551EAD89A1A01FB1AF3@SV-MAIL-TDP.NGA.GOV> References: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4ABB91C0@mailsrv.imj.org.il>, <6CEED63FF7AF5A4FA7C39551EAD89A1A01FB1AF3@SV-MAIL-TDP.NGA.GOV> Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4ABB91D1@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Alan: One thing I've learned in exploring the possibilities for setting up an online, download-it-yourself site is that the cost of maintenance, bandwidth, and 24/7 support is not trivial, and there is indeed human service involved. The thing doesn't literally run itself. And the cost of the build is far from trivial - anywhere from $50,000 to $150,00. I have to pay for that with something -- no one's handing us the money to do it. That something is going to have to be a revenue stream. "Mission-driven public policy" may make us look in the direction of an online, download-it-yourself site, but it isn't going to pay to make it happen. Amalyah Keshet Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management The Israel Museum, Jerusalem ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Newman, Alan [A-Newman at NGA.GOV] ??????: ????? ????? 21 ??? 2009 15:17 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) Hi Amalyah, My point was that after the build the maintenance costs are trivial to keep the self-serve part of the system going. There is only automated file delivery and no human service...for that part of the program. The main question, debated here often, is whether this should be mission-driven public policy rather than thought off as a crucial revenue stream. In my imaginary proposal you get both. Alan -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] Sent: Thu 5/21/2009 4:26 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) "When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art." Trivial costs? Not according to our CIO. I'm struggling to get something like this online, due to the sheer cost, which is most certainly not paid for by "the people's money". And we need to remember that people aren't paying for "images of public domain art" (an abstract) but for image files + delivery + service. "As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Perhaps the V&A is a fully-government-funded institution (with a very active commercial branch, V&A Enterprises, Ltd., to help support it -- including an excellent for-payment picture library). But not so my non-government-funded institution. We literally do not have a photography budget. High-quality images are paid for by individual exhibition catalog budgets, which are fully funded by private donations. Amalyah Keshet Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management The Israel Museum, Jerusalem ________________________________________ ? From: Newman, Alan Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes (later Image Theft) To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 1:12 PM Nik, Matt, Ken, Nancy, Mike et al, Here's another music model --- from Radiohead (quoting from Wikipedia") "Radiohead's seventh album, In Rainbows, was released through the band's own website on 10 October 2007 as a digital download for which customers could make whatever payment that they wanted, including nothing; the site only advised, "it's up to you".[46] Following the band's sudden announcement 10 days beforehand, Radiohead's unusual strategy received much notice within the music industry and beyond.[47] 1.2 million downloads were reportedly sold by the day of release,[48] but the band's management did not release official sales figures, claiming that the Internet-only distribution was intended to boost later retail sales." So we adopt a museum convention in use at the Met and elsewhere for admissions: pay what you can afford for images. What could be more fair? What could draw more attention to our collections? Who knows, this might be the answer to Mariet Westermann's recommendation to streamline image licensing. When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art. As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Nik, wish me luck getting this through. Alan Newman On 5/5/09 6:23 PM, "Nik Honeysett" wrote: > This reminds me of a classic example in the music industry in the early 90's. > Blue Note Record's legal team came across a 12" single called "The Band Played > the Boogie" featuring an illegal sampling of Grant Green's "Sookie Sookie", > enjoying a huge underground following. Rather than pursue a suit, Blue Note > hired the group and gave them access to their full back catalogue. The > resulting release was Blue Note's first platinum-selling album (Us3 - Hand on > the Torch). So, put your images out there, wait for someone to figure out > how to make money from them, then hire them. (wish me luck with getting that > through our general counsel). -nik _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From A-Newman at NGA.GOV Thu May 21 08:36:32 2009 From: A-Newman at NGA.GOV (Newman, Alan) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 11:36:32 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] =?utf-8?b?4oCP4oCPUkUgOiAgPz9SRTogIEltYWdlIFNpemVzIChs?= =?utf-8?q?ater_Image_Theft=29?= In-Reply-To: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4ABB91D1@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Message-ID: Amalyah, My point addressed those that were able to get funding for this by any means and what to do with the system. If the people or a foundation or a donor pay $100K for the system this is a gift and does not need to be allocated or recovered. If you borrow the money and are expected to repay a debt (this would be a new idea) you can find a fair way to repay those funds. Mission determines not only policy but budget priorities. Alan On 5/21/09 11:18 AM, "Amalyah Keshet" wrote: > Alan: One thing I've learned in exploring the possibilities for setting up > an online, download-it-yourself site is that the cost of maintenance, > bandwidth, and 24/7 support is not trivial, and there is indeed human service > involved. The thing doesn't literally run itself. And the cost of the > build is far from trivial - anywhere from $50,000 to $150,00. I have to pay > for that with something -- no one's handing us the money to do it. That > something is going to have to be a revenue stream. "Mission-driven public > policy" may make us look in the direction of an online, download-it-yourself > site, but it isn't going to pay to make it happen. Amalyah Keshet Head of > Image Resources & Copyright Management The Israel Museum, > Jerusalem ________________________________________ ?????: > ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Newman, Alan > [A-Newman at NGA.GOV] ??????: ????? ????? 21 ??? 2009 15:17 ????: Museum Computer > Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image > Theft) Hi Amalyah, My point was that after the build the maintenance costs > are trivial to keep the self-serve part of the system going. There is only > automated file delivery and no human service...for that part of the > program. The main question, debated here often, is whether this should be > mission-driven public policy rather than thought off as a crucial revenue > stream. In my imaginary proposal you get both. Alan -----Original > Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Amalyah Keshet > [akeshet at imj.org.il] Sent: Thu 5/21/2009 4:26 AM To: Museum Computer Network > Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) "When we > build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the > build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to > justify charging for extant images of public domain art." Trivial costs? Not > according to our CIO. I'm struggling to get something like this online, due > to the sheer cost, which is most certainly not paid for by "the people's > money". And we need to remember that people aren't paying for "images of > public domain art" (an abstract) but for image files + delivery + > service. "As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to > me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Perhaps the > V&A is a fully-government-funded institution (with a very active commercial > branch, V&A Enterprises, Ltd., to help support it -- including an excellent > for-payment picture library). But not so my non-government-funded > institution. We literally do not have a photography budget. High-quality > images are paid for by individual exhibition catalog budgets, which are fully > funded by private donations. Amalyah Keshet Head of Image Resources & > Copyright Management The Israel Museum, > Jerusalem ________________________________________ ? From: Newman, Alan > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes (later Image Theft) To: > "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Wednesday, May 20, > 2009, 1:12 PM Nik, Matt, Ken, Nancy, Mike et al, Here's another music model > --- from Radiohead (quoting from Wikipedia") "Radiohead's seventh album, In > Rainbows, was released through the band's own website on 10 October 2007 as a > digital download for which customers could make whatever payment that they > wanted, including nothing; the site only advised, "it's up to you".[46] > Following the band's sudden announcement 10 days beforehand, Radiohead's > unusual strategy received much notice within the music industry and > beyond.[47] 1.2 million downloads were reportedly sold by the day of > release,[48] but the band's management did not release official sales figures, > claiming that the Internet-only distribution was intended to boost later > retail sales." So we adopt a museum convention in use at the Met and > elsewhere for admissions: pay what you can afford for images. What could be > more fair? What could draw more attention to our collections? Who knows, this > might be the answer to Mariet Westermann's recommendation to streamline > image licensing. When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which > have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the > people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public > domain art. As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told > to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Nik, wish > me luck getting this through. Alan Newman On 5/5/09 6:23 PM, "Nik > Honeysett" wrote: > This reminds me of a classic > example in the music industry in the early 90's. > Blue Note Record's legal > team came across a 12" single called "The Band Played > the Boogie" featuring > an illegal sampling of Grant Green's "Sookie Sookie", > enjoying a huge > underground following. Rather than pursue a suit, Blue Note > hired the group > and gave them access to their full back catalogue. The > resulting release was > Blue Note's first platinum-selling album (Us3 - Hand on > the Torch). So, put > your images out there, wait for someone to figure out > how to make money from > them, then hire them. (wish me luck with getting that > through our general > counsel). -nik _______________________________________________ You are > currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network > (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: > mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options > visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L > archives can be found > at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________ > ________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv > of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, > send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery > options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L > archives can be found > at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ ___________________________ > ____________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of > the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send > messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options > visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L > archives can be found > at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ __________________________ > _____________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of > the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send > messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options > visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L > archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From akeshet at imj.org.il Thu May 21 10:00:45 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 19:00:45 +0200 Subject: [MCN-L] =?windows-1255?b?/v5SRTogIP7+UkUgOiAgPz9SRTogIEltYWdlIFNp?= =?windows-1255?q?zes_=28later_Image_Theft=29?= In-Reply-To: References: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4ABB91D1@mailsrv.imj.org.il>, Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4ABB91D6@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Alan: Yes, I understand. But the people (taxpayer dollars) won't pay for it, and neither will a foundation and neither will a donor. (I'm speaking of here in my part of the world, of course -- but I know I'm not speaking only for myself. If you can get a foundation to pay for this, that's great, and I can only envy you.) So yes, it's an investment, and not only has to be repaid, but has to bring in enough new income to prove that the initial investment was worth it. That's the way our budget priorities work, at any rate. Amalyah ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Newman, Alan [A-Newman at NGA.GOV] ??????: ????? ????? 21 ??? 2009 18:36 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE : ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) Amalyah, My point addressed those that were able to get funding for this by any means and what to do with the system. If the people or a foundation or a donor pay $100K for the system this is a gift and does not need to be allocated or recovered. If you borrow the money and are expected to repay a debt (this would be a new idea) you can find a fair way to repay those funds. Mission determines not only policy but budget priorities. Alan On 5/21/09 11:18 AM, "Amalyah Keshet" wrote: > Alan: One thing I've learned in exploring the possibilities for setting up > an online, download-it-yourself site is that the cost of maintenance, > bandwidth, and 24/7 support is not trivial, and there is indeed human service > involved. The thing doesn't literally run itself. And the cost of the > build is far from trivial - anywhere from $50,000 to $150,00. I have to pay > for that with something -- no one's handing us the money to do it. That > something is going to have to be a revenue stream. "Mission-driven public > policy" may make us look in the direction of an online, download-it-yourself > site, but it isn't going to pay to make it happen. Amalyah Keshet Head of > Image Resources & Copyright Management The Israel Museum, > Jerusalem ________________________________________ ?????: > ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Newman, Alan > [A-Newman at NGA.GOV] ??????: ????? ????? 21 ??? 2009 15:17 ????: Museum Computer > Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image > Theft) Hi Amalyah, My point was that after the build the maintenance costs > are trivial to keep the self-serve part of the system going. There is only > automated file delivery and no human service...for that part of the > program. The main question, debated here often, is whether this should be > mission-driven public policy rather than thought off as a crucial revenue > stream. In my imaginary proposal you get both. Alan -----Original > Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Amalyah Keshet > [akeshet at imj.org.il] Sent: Thu 5/21/2009 4:26 AM To: Museum Computer Network > Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) "When we > build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the > build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to > justify charging for extant images of public domain art." Trivial costs? Not > according to our CIO. I'm struggling to get something like this online, due > to the sheer cost, which is most certainly not paid for by "the people's > money". And we need to remember that people aren't paying for "images of > public domain art" (an abstract) but for image files + delivery + > service. "As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to > me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Perhaps the > V&A is a fully-government-funded institution (with a very active commercial > branch, V&A Enterprises, Ltd., to help support it -- including an excellent > for-payment picture library). But not so my non-government-funded > institution. We literally do not have a photography budget. High-quality > images are paid for by individual exhibition catalog budgets, which are fully > funded by private donations. Amalyah Keshet Head of Image Resources & > Copyright Management The Israel Museum, > Jerusalem ________________________________________ ? From: Newman, Alan > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes (later Image Theft) To: > "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Wednesday, May 20, > 2009, 1:12 PM Nik, Matt, Ken, Nancy, Mike et al, Here's another music model > --- from Radiohead (quoting from Wikipedia") "Radiohead's seventh album, In > Rainbows, was released through the band's own website on 10 October 2007 as a > digital download for which customers could make whatever payment that they > wanted, including nothing; the site only advised, "it's up to you".[46] > Following the band's sudden announcement 10 days beforehand, Radiohead's > unusual strategy received much notice within the music industry and > beyond.[47] 1.2 million downloads were reportedly sold by the day of > release,[48] but the band's management did not release official sales figures, > claiming that the Internet-only distribution was intended to boost later > retail sales." So we adopt a museum convention in use at the Met and > elsewhere for admissions: pay what you can afford for images. What could be > more fair? What could draw more attention to our collections? Who knows, this > might be the answer to Mariet Westermann's recommendation to streamline > image licensing. When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which > have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the > people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public > domain art. As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told > to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Nik, wish > me luck getting this through. Alan Newman On 5/5/09 6:23 PM, "Nik > Honeysett" wrote: > This reminds me of a classic > example in the music industry in the early 90's. > Blue Note Record's legal > team came across a 12" single called "The Band Played > the Boogie" featuring > an illegal sampling of Grant Green's "Sookie Sookie", > enjoying a huge > underground following. Rather than pursue a suit, Blue Note > hired the group > and gave them access to their full back catalogue. The > resulting release was > Blue Note's first platinum-selling album (Us3 - Hand on > the Torch). So, put > your images out there, wait for someone to figure out > how to make money from > them, then hire them. (wish me luck with getting that > through our general > counsel). -nik _______________________________________________ You are > currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network > (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: > mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options > visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L > archives can be found > at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________ > ________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv > of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, > send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery > options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L > archives can be found > at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ ___________________________ > ____________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of > the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send > messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options > visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L > archives can be found > at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ __________________________ > _____________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of > the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send > messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options > visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L > archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From jims at ideum.com Thu May 21 09:06:30 2009 From: jims at ideum.com (Jim Spadaccini) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 10:06:30 -0600 Subject: [MCN-L] Last Call for Computer-Based Exhibit Survey Message-ID: <3F3346CD-3A24-4ED7-916B-8DB22A666D5D@ideum.com> Everyone, Last call. We will be closing our survey on Monday. If you haven't taken it yet, you can go directly to: http://tinyurl.com/openexhibits As of today we have 122 responses. Maybe we can break 150? If you have 5 to 10 minutes to spare we would appreciate your participation. We will share the results first with anyone who completes the survey, we will later post the results on the Open Exhibits Website: http://www.openexhibits.org Below is the message I sent out last month.... We are resubmitting a grant proposal to fund Open Exhibits, a project that will allow us to develop, test, and disseminate open source software built specifically for museum exhibits. The Open Exhibits software, templates, modules, source code, training opportunities, and prototype exhibits will be made freely available to museums. The exhibits will be built using Adobe Flash (ActionScript 3 and Flex). We are planning on building-in support for multitouch gestures and multiuser applications. We also intend to build-in support for external devices such as sensors, cameras, buttons, and unusual displays. Once again, we are seeking feedback from other museum professionals so we can tailor our project to meet the needs of the field. We have put together a survey to help us assess those needs: to gain insight into the state of computer-based interactive exhibits in a variety of museums, to gauge interest in the Open Exhibits software, and to better understand museums? technical expertise and constraints. Anyone from any type of museum or informal educational organization is encouraged to respond. Thanks for your help and participation. Jim Spadaccini Jim Spadaccini Ideum "ideas + media" 4895 1/2 Corrales Road Corrales, NM 87048 phone: 505-792-1110 portfolio & blog: http://www.ideum.com museum blogs & podcasts: http://www.museumblogs.org Have you seen our multitouch table? http://www.ideum.com/products/multitouch.html From alison.benjamin at gmail.com Thu May 21 09:35:25 2009 From: alison.benjamin at gmail.com (Alison Benjamin) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:35:25 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] job descriptions for museum's in-house IT staff Message-ID: Hello, I am researching job descriptions for in-house IT staff of museums. I am a part of the Fluid Engage project ( http://fluidproject.org/projects/fluid-engage) and am assisting a partner museum develop a job description for a staff member that is dedicated to IT full-time. So, I want to get a sense of what IT staff who work in-house for museums and galleries do. I'm particularly interested in positions where working with open source communities and implementing open source solutions is emphasized, but that is not the only criteria. Thus far, I've been browsing http://conference.archimuse.com/ and downloading job descriptions from there. However, I am looking for other resources to browse as well. I would appreciate any tips on other places to investigate. Thanks, Alison Benjamin Fluid Engage Project From waibelg at oclc.org Thu May 21 10:10:01 2009 From: waibelg at oclc.org (Waibel,Guenter) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 13:10:01 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) In-Reply-To: <6CEED63FF7AF5A4FA7C39551EAD89A1A01FB1AF3@SV-MAIL-TDP.NGA.GOV> References: <6CEED63FF7AF5A4FA7C39551EAD89A1A01FB1AF3@SV-MAIL-TDP.NGA.GOV> Message-ID: Alan, I really enjoyed reading about your creative solution to the perennial dilemma of image licensing, and I am keeping my fingers crossed that you can make "pay what you can afford" a reality and report back to all of us how you fared. You've got me at the edge of my seat. As for the initial cost of setting up such a system, which is of great concern to Amalyah and others: this, like so many other things museums are currently doing redundantly and at great cost in their own basements, would be a great opportunity for a collective service. If Alan's model succeeds, why would every museum have to develop / purchase their own licensing system, and run it locally? Shouldn't this be a configurable service in the cloud you could subscribe to for a reasonable fee? Cheers, G?nter -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Newman, Alan Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:17 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) Hi Amalyah, My point was that after the build the maintenance costs are trivial to keep the self-serve part of the system going. There is only automated file delivery and no human service...for that part of the program. The main question, debated here often, is whether this should be mission-driven public policy rather than thought off as a crucial revenue stream. In my imaginary proposal you get both. Alan -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] Sent: Thu 5/21/2009 4:26 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) "When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art." Trivial costs? Not according to our CIO. I'm struggling to get something like this online, due to the sheer cost, which is most certainly not paid for by "the people's money". And we need to remember that people aren't paying for "images of public domain art" (an abstract) but for image files + delivery + service. "As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Perhaps the V&A is a fully-government-funded institution (with a very active commercial branch, V&A Enterprises, Ltd., to help support it -- including an excellent for-payment picture library). But not so my non-government-funded institution. We literally do not have a photography budget. High-quality images are paid for by individual exhibition catalog budgets, which are fully funded by private donations. Amalyah Keshet Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management The Israel Museum, Jerusalem ________________________________________ ? From: Newman, Alan Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes (later Image Theft) To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 1:12 PM Nik, Matt, Ken, Nancy, Mike et al, Here's another music model --- from Radiohead (quoting from Wikipedia") "Radiohead's seventh album, In Rainbows, was released through the band's own website on 10 October 2007 as a digital download for which customers could make whatever payment that they wanted, including nothing; the site only advised, "it's up to you".[46] Following the band's sudden announcement 10 days beforehand, Radiohead's unusual strategy received much notice within the music industry and beyond.[47] 1.2 million downloads were reportedly sold by the day of release,[48] but the band's management did not release official sales figures, claiming that the Internet-only distribution was intended to boost later retail sales." So we adopt a museum convention in use at the Met and elsewhere for admissions: pay what you can afford for images. What could be more fair? What could draw more attention to our collections? Who knows, this might be the answer to Mariet Westermann's recommendation to streamline image licensing. When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art. As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Nik, wish me luck getting this through. Alan Newman On 5/5/09 6:23 PM, "Nik Honeysett" wrote: > This reminds me of a classic example in the music industry in the early 90's. > Blue Note Record's legal team came across a 12" single called "The Band Played > the Boogie" featuring an illegal sampling of Grant Green's "Sookie Sookie", > enjoying a huge underground following. Rather than pursue a suit, Blue Note > hired the group and gave them access to their full back catalogue. The > resulting release was Blue Note's first platinum-selling album (Us3 - Hand on > the Torch). So, put your images out there, wait for someone to figure out > how to make money from them, then hire them. (wish me luck with getting that > through our general counsel). -nik _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From akeshet at imj.org.il Thu May 21 23:08:48 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 08:08:48 +0200 Subject: [MCN-L] =?utf-8?b?4oCP4oCPUkU6ICA/P1JFOiAgSW1hZ2UgU2l6ZXMgKGxh?= =?utf-8?q?ter_Image_Theft=29?= In-Reply-To: References: <6CEED63FF7AF5A4FA7C39551EAD89A1A01FB1AF3@SV-MAIL-TDP.NGA.GOV>, Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4ABB91DC@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Alan, Gunter, et al.: Perhaps I haven't make it clear that the position I'm arguing IS the policy decision of my particular institution. I love thinking (and arguing) about how other, way-out-there creative ideas (including Radiohead's brilliant if limited marketing gimmick) - so I'm enjoying this conversation. (I just wish others would chime in. Ahem!) But there are institutions that have enough money to allocate according to mission-based policy and budget decisions, and there are institutions that are bottom-line, revenue-based. My job at present is to draw up a business plan that for turning a traditional rights & reproductions operation into an online stock photo agency, if you will, with a healthy revenue stream. It's a challenge, to put it mildly. I am only cautiously optimistic, and the points you bring up are part of the reason why. But this is the decision of management, and it's my job to carry it through. So, whatever ideas anyone on this amazing list can come up with are more than welcome. Even Gunter's far-out in-the-cloud idea. (Just kidding, Gunter. Make it happen!) I know that others are in the same boat and following this conversation closely. Amalyah ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Waibel,Guenter [waibelg at oclc.org] ??????: ????? ????? 21 ??? 2009 20:10 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) Alan, I really enjoyed reading about your creative solution to the perennial dilemma of image licensing, and I am keeping my fingers crossed that you can make "pay what you can afford" a reality and report back to all of us how you fared. You've got me at the edge of my seat. As for the initial cost of setting up such a system, which is of great concern to Amalyah and others: this, like so many other things museums are currently doing redundantly and at great cost in their own basements, would be a great opportunity for a collective service. If Alan's model succeeds, why would every museum have to develop / purchase their own licensing system, and run it locally? Shouldn't this be a configurable service in the cloud you could subscribe to for a reasonable fee? Cheers, G?nter -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Newman, Alan Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:17 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) Hi Amalyah, My point was that after the build the maintenance costs are trivial to keep the self-serve part of the system going. There is only automated file delivery and no human service...for that part of the program. The main question, debated here often, is whether this should be mission-driven public policy rather than thought off as a crucial revenue stream. In my imaginary proposal you get both. Alan -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] Sent: Thu 5/21/2009 4:26 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) "When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art." Trivial costs? Not according to our CIO. I'm struggling to get something like this online, due to the sheer cost, which is most certainly not paid for by "the people's money". And we need to remember that people aren't paying for "images of public domain art" (an abstract) but for image files + delivery + service. "As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Perhaps the V&A is a fully-government-funded institution (with a very active commercial branch, V&A Enterprises, Ltd., to help support it -- including an excellent for-payment picture library). But not so my non-government-funded institution. We literally do not have a photography budget. High-quality images are paid for by individual exhibition catalog budgets, which are fully funded by private donations. Amalyah Keshet Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management The Israel Museum, Jerusalem ________________________________________ ? From: Newman, Alan Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes (later Image Theft) To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 1:12 PM Nik, Matt, Ken, Nancy, Mike et al, Here's another music model --- from Radiohead (quoting from Wikipedia") "Radiohead's seventh album, In Rainbows, was released through the band's own website on 10 October 2007 as a digital download for which customers could make whatever payment that they wanted, including nothing; the site only advised, "it's up to you".[46] Following the band's sudden announcement 10 days beforehand, Radiohead's unusual strategy received much notice within the music industry and beyond.[47] 1.2 million downloads were reportedly sold by the day of release,[48] but the band's management did not release official sales figures, claiming that the Internet-only distribution was intended to boost later retail sales." So we adopt a museum convention in use at the Met and elsewhere for admissions: pay what you can afford for images. What could be more fair? What could draw more attention to our collections? Who knows, this might be the answer to Mariet Westermann's recommendation to streamline image licensing. When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art. As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Nik, wish me luck getting this through. Alan Newman On 5/5/09 6:23 PM, "Nik Honeysett" wrote: > This reminds me of a classic example in the music industry in the early 90's. > Blue Note Record's legal team came across a 12" single called "The Band Played > the Boogie" featuring an illegal sampling of Grant Green's "Sookie Sookie", > enjoying a huge underground following. Rather than pursue a suit, Blue Note > hired the group and gave them access to their full back catalogue. The > resulting release was Blue Note's first platinum-selling album (Us3 - Hand on > the Torch). So, put your images out there, wait for someone to figure out > how to make money from them, then hire them. (wish me luck with getting that > through our general counsel). -nik _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From gosed at ccp.library.arizona.edu Fri May 22 08:45:27 2009 From: gosed at ccp.library.arizona.edu (Gose, Denise) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 08:45:27 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) In-Reply-To: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4ABB91DC@mailsrv.imj.org.il> References: <6CEED63FF7AF5A4FA7C39551EAD89A1A01FB1AF3@SV-MAIL-TDP.NGA.GOV>, <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4ABB91DC@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Message-ID: The Center for Creative Photography is in the infancy (testing) stages of getting the fine print catalog online. Most of the work is protected by copyright, and can't be licensed out by us, but sixteen of the copyrights are owned or managed by CCP. We're thinking of a self-serve licensing system at some point, but curious if anyone has considered how to deal with a complex pricing model, based on print run, repro size, distribution, and non-profit vs. commercial. And how do you ensure that the works are reproduced according to your institution's guidelines without human interaction? The revenue stream supports vital museum functions, so we need to approach cautiously. Conversely, we're thinking of making some or all of CCP's public domain works available for free. Denise Gos? Rights and Reproductions Manager Center for Creative Photography University of Arizona -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of akeshet at imj.org.il Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:09 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) Alan, Gunter, et al.: Perhaps I haven't make it clear that the position I'm arguing IS the policy decision of my particular institution. I love thinking (and arguing) about how other, way-out-there creative ideas (including Radiohead's brilliant if limited marketing gimmick) - so I'm enjoying this conversation. (I just wish others would chime in. Ahem!) But there are institutions that have enough money to allocate according to mission-based policy and budget decisions, and there are institutions that are bottom-line, revenue-based. My job at present is to draw up a business plan that for turning a traditional rights & reproductions operation into an online stock photo agency, if you will, with a healthy revenue stream. It's a challenge, to put it mildly. I am only cautiously optimistic, and the points you bring up are part of the reason why. But this is the decision of management, and it's my job to carry it through. So, whatever ideas anyone on this amazing list can come up with are more than welcome. Even Gunter's far-out in-the-cloud idea. (Just kidding, Gunter. Make it happen!) I know that others are in the same boat and following this conversation closely. Amalyah ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Waibel,Guenter [waibelg at oclc.org] ??????: ????? ????? 21 ??? 2009 20:10 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) Alan, I really enjoyed reading about your creative solution to the perennial dilemma of image licensing, and I am keeping my fingers crossed that you can make "pay what you can afford" a reality and report back to all of us how you fared. You've got me at the edge of my seat. As for the initial cost of setting up such a system, which is of great concern to Amalyah and others: this, like so many other things museums are currently doing redundantly and at great cost in their own basements, would be a great opportunity for a collective service. If Alan's model succeeds, why would every museum have to develop / purchase their own licensing system, and run it locally? Shouldn't this be a configurable service in the cloud you could subscribe to for a reasonable fee? Cheers, G?nter -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Newman, Alan Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:17 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) Hi Amalyah, My point was that after the build the maintenance costs are trivial to keep the self-serve part of the system going. There is only automated file delivery and no human service...for that part of the program. The main question, debated here often, is whether this should be mission-driven public policy rather than thought off as a crucial revenue stream. In my imaginary proposal you get both. Alan -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] Sent: Thu 5/21/2009 4:26 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) "When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art." Trivial costs? Not according to our CIO. I'm struggling to get something like this online, due to the sheer cost, which is most certainly not paid for by "the people's money". And we need to remember that people aren't paying for "images of public domain art" (an abstract) but for image files + delivery + service. "As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Perhaps the V&A is a fully-government-funded institution (with a very active commercial branch, V&A Enterprises, Ltd., to help support it -- including an excellent for-payment picture library). But not so my non-government-funded institution. We literally do not have a photography budget. High-quality images are paid for by individual exhibition catalog budgets, which are fully funded by private donations. Amalyah Keshet Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management The Israel Museum, Jerusalem ________________________________________ ? From: Newman, Alan Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes (later Image Theft) To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 1:12 PM Nik, Matt, Ken, Nancy, Mike et al, Here's another music model --- from Radiohead (quoting from Wikipedia") "Radiohead's seventh album, In Rainbows, was released through the band's own website on 10 October 2007 as a digital download for which customers could make whatever payment that they wanted, including nothing; the site only advised, "it's up to you".[46] Following the band's sudden announcement 10 days beforehand, Radiohead's unusual strategy received much notice within the music industry and beyond.[47] 1.2 million downloads were reportedly sold by the day of release,[48] but the band's management did not release official sales figures, claiming that the Internet-only distribution was intended to boost later retail sales." So we adopt a museum convention in use at the Met and elsewhere for admissions: pay what you can afford for images. What could be more fair? What could draw more attention to our collections? Who knows, this might be the answer to Mariet Westermann's recommendation to streamline image licensing. When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art. As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Nik, wish me luck getting this through. Alan Newman On 5/5/09 6:23 PM, "Nik Honeysett" wrote: > This reminds me of a classic example in the music industry in the early 90's. > Blue Note Record's legal team came across a 12" single called "The Band Played > the Boogie" featuring an illegal sampling of Grant Green's "Sookie Sookie", > enjoying a huge underground following. Rather than pursue a suit, Blue Note > hired the group and gave them access to their full back catalogue. The > resulting release was Blue Note's first platinum-selling album (Us3 - Hand on > the Torch). So, put your images out there, wait for someone to figure out > how to make money from them, then hire them. (wish me luck with getting that > through our general counsel). -nik _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From PENNEY at dia.org Fri May 22 14:19:07 2009 From: PENNEY at dia.org (David Penney) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 17:19:07 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] mcn-l Digest, Vol 44, Issue 21 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8BA2F633EA5BAD4EB32B203F4F0D8F07A603F1@srvdiamail1.dia.local> Dear Amalyah, Ok here is a perspective and some experience from a large, business-driven art museum. The Detroit Institute of Arts possesses rights to a large corpus of images of very high and covetable quality, both from its permanent collection and through exhibition projects. Like many organizations, we saw in the creation of Corbis and the like an ability to create a revenue center by careful management of "rights and reproductions," making this part of a business model now more than 20 years old. Over that time period, as Eve Sinaiko, the Director of Publications for the College Arts Association, points out, the cost of art book publishing has skyrocketed, and the business of art book publishing continues to spiral downward. As a result, our revenue from rights and reproductions has diminished steadily to its current trickle--to the extent that we have just eliminated the full-time position required to manage that business. As policy, and we have been following this discussion with interest, we are transitioning to some version of almost free-circulation of images in the public domain, while still committed to protecting artists' rights, informed by the notion that the "rights and reproductions" business model conflicts with more expansive program initiatives involving on-line access and social media. At our scale, which is big for museums, the business of making revenue from images does not work very well. Hope this helps, David W. Penney Vice President of Exhibitions and Collections Strategies The Detroit Institute of Arts -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of mcn-l-request at mcn.edu Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 3:00 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: mcn-l Digest, Vol 44, Issue 21 Send mcn-l mailing list submissions to mcn-l at mcn.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mcn-l-request at mcn.edu You can reach the person managing the list at mcn-l-owner at mcn.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of mcn-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. ??RE: ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il]) 2. Re: ??RE: ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) (Gose, Denise) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 08:08:48 +0200 From: "Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il]" Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4ABB91DC at mailsrv.imj.org.il> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Alan, Gunter, et al.: Perhaps I haven't make it clear that the position I'm arguing IS the policy decision of my particular institution. I love thinking (and arguing) about how other, way-out-there creative ideas (including Radiohead's brilliant if limited marketing gimmick) - so I'm enjoying this conversation. (I just wish others would chime in. Ahem!) But there are institutions that have enough money to allocate according to mission-based policy and budget decisions, and there are institutions that are bottom-line, revenue-based. My job at present is to draw up a business plan that for turning a traditional rights & reproductions operation into an online stock photo agency, if you will, with a healthy revenue stream. It's a challenge, to put it mildly. I am only cautiously optimistic, and the points you bring up are part of the reason why. But this is the decision of management, and it's my job to carry it through. So, whatever ideas anyone on this amazing list can come up with are more than welcome. Even Gunter's far-out in-the-cloud idea. (Just kidding, Gunter. Make it happen!) I know that others are in the same boat and following this conversation closely. Amalyah ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Waibel,Guenter [waibelg at oclc.org] ??????: ????? ????? 21 ??? 2009 20:10 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) Alan, I really enjoyed reading about your creative solution to the perennial dilemma of image licensing, and I am keeping my fingers crossed that you can make "pay what you can afford" a reality and report back to all of us how you fared. You've got me at the edge of my seat. As for the initial cost of setting up such a system, which is of great concern to Amalyah and others: this, like so many other things museums are currently doing redundantly and at great cost in their own basements, would be a great opportunity for a collective service. If Alan's model succeeds, why would every museum have to develop / purchase their own licensing system, and run it locally? Shouldn't this be a configurable service in the cloud you could subscribe to for a reasonable fee? Cheers, G?nter -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Newman, Alan Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:17 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) Hi Amalyah, My point was that after the build the maintenance costs are trivial to keep the self-serve part of the system going. There is only automated file delivery and no human service...for that part of the program. The main question, debated here often, is whether this should be mission-driven public policy rather than thought off as a crucial revenue stream. In my imaginary proposal you get both. Alan -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] Sent: Thu 5/21/2009 4:26 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) "When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art." Trivial costs? Not according to our CIO. I'm struggling to get something like this online, due to the sheer cost, which is most certainly not paid for by "the people's money". And we need to remember that people aren't paying for "images of public domain art" (an abstract) but for image files + delivery + service. "As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Perhaps the V&A is a fully-government-funded institution (with a very active commercial branch, V&A Enterprises, Ltd., to help support it -- including an excellent for-payment picture library). But not so my non-government-funded institution. We literally do not have a photography budget. High-quality images are paid for by individual exhibition catalog budgets, which are fully funded by private donations. Amalyah Keshet Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management The Israel Museum, Jerusalem ________________________________________ ? From: Newman, Alan Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes (later Image Theft) To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 1:12 PM Nik, Matt, Ken, Nancy, Mike et al, Here's another music model --- from Radiohead (quoting from Wikipedia") "Radiohead's seventh album, In Rainbows, was released through the band's own website on 10 October 2007 as a digital download for which customers could make whatever payment that they wanted, including nothing; the site only advised, "it's up to you".[46] Following the band's sudden announcement 10 days beforehand, Radiohead's unusual strategy received much notice within the music industry and beyond.[47] 1.2 million downloads were reportedly sold by the day of release,[48] but the band's management did not release official sales figures, claiming that the Internet-only distribution was intended to boost later retail sales." So we adopt a museum convention in use at the Met and elsewhere for admissions: pay what you can afford for images. What could be more fair? What could draw more attention to our collections? Who knows, this might be the answer to Mariet Westermann's recommendation to streamline image licensing. When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art. As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Nik, wish me luck getting this through. Alan Newman On 5/5/09 6:23 PM, "Nik Honeysett" wrote: > This reminds me of a classic example in the music industry in the early 90's. > Blue Note Record's legal team came across a 12" single called "The Band Played > the Boogie" featuring an illegal sampling of Grant Green's "Sookie Sookie", > enjoying a huge underground following. Rather than pursue a suit, Blue Note > hired the group and gave them access to their full back catalogue. The > resulting release was Blue Note's first platinum-selling album (Us3 - Hand on > the Torch). So, put your images out there, wait for someone to figure out > how to make money from them, then hire them. (wish me luck with getting that > through our general counsel). -nik _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 08:45:27 -0700 From: "Gose, Denise" Subject: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE: ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" The Center for Creative Photography is in the infancy (testing) stages of getting the fine print catalog online. Most of the work is protected by copyright, and can't be licensed out by us, but sixteen of the copyrights are owned or managed by CCP. We're thinking of a self-serve licensing system at some point, but curious if anyone has considered how to deal with a complex pricing model, based on print run, repro size, distribution, and non-profit vs. commercial. And how do you ensure that the works are reproduced according to your institution's guidelines without human interaction? The revenue stream supports vital museum functions, so we need to approach cautiously. Conversely, we're thinking of making some or all of CCP's public domain works available for free. Denise Gos? Rights and Reproductions Manager Center for Creative Photography University of Arizona -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of akeshet at imj.org.il Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:09 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) Alan, Gunter, et al.: Perhaps I haven't make it clear that the position I'm arguing IS the policy decision of my particular institution. I love thinking (and arguing) about how other, way-out-there creative ideas (including Radiohead's brilliant if limited marketing gimmick) - so I'm enjoying this conversation. (I just wish others would chime in. Ahem!) But there are institutions that have enough money to allocate according to mission-based policy and budget decisions, and there are institutions that are bottom-line, revenue-based. My job at present is to draw up a business plan that for turning a traditional rights & reproductions operation into an online stock photo agency, if you will, with a healthy revenue stream. It's a challenge, to put it mildly. I am only cautiously optimistic, and the points you bring up are part of the reason why. But this is the decision of management, and it's my job to carry it through. So, whatever ideas anyone on this amazing list can come up with are more than welcome. Even Gunter's far-out in-the-cloud idea. (Just kidding, Gunter. Make it happen!) I know that others are in the same boat and following this conversation closely. Amalyah ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Waibel,Guenter [waibelg at oclc.org] ??????: ????? ????? 21 ??? 2009 20:10 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) Alan, I really enjoyed reading about your creative solution to the perennial dilemma of image licensing, and I am keeping my fingers crossed that you can make "pay what you can afford" a reality and report back to all of us how you fared. You've got me at the edge of my seat. As for the initial cost of setting up such a system, which is of great concern to Amalyah and others: this, like so many other things museums are currently doing redundantly and at great cost in their own basements, would be a great opportunity for a collective service. If Alan's model succeeds, why would every museum have to develop / purchase their own licensing system, and run it locally? Shouldn't this be a configurable service in the cloud you could subscribe to for a reasonable fee? Cheers, G?nter -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Newman, Alan Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:17 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) Hi Amalyah, My point was that after the build the maintenance costs are trivial to keep the self-serve part of the system going. There is only automated file delivery and no human service...for that part of the program. The main question, debated here often, is whether this should be mission-driven public policy rather than thought off as a crucial revenue stream. In my imaginary proposal you get both. Alan -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] Sent: Thu 5/21/2009 4:26 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: Image Sizes (later Image Theft) "When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art." Trivial costs? Not according to our CIO. I'm struggling to get something like this online, due to the sheer cost, which is most certainly not paid for by "the people's money". And we need to remember that people aren't paying for "images of public domain art" (an abstract) but for image files + delivery + service. "As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Perhaps the V&A is a fully-government-funded institution (with a very active commercial branch, V&A Enterprises, Ltd., to help support it -- including an excellent for-payment picture library). But not so my non-government-funded institution. We literally do not have a photography budget. High-quality images are paid for by individual exhibition catalog budgets, which are fully funded by private donations. Amalyah Keshet Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management The Israel Museum, Jerusalem ________________________________________ ? From: Newman, Alan Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Image Sizes (later Image Theft) To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 1:12 PM Nik, Matt, Ken, Nancy, Mike et al, Here's another music model --- from Radiohead (quoting from Wikipedia") "Radiohead's seventh album, In Rainbows, was released through the band's own website on 10 October 2007 as a digital download for which customers could make whatever payment that they wanted, including nothing; the site only advised, "it's up to you".[46] Following the band's sudden announcement 10 days beforehand, Radiohead's unusual strategy received much notice within the music industry and beyond.[47] 1.2 million downloads were reportedly sold by the day of release,[48] but the band's management did not release official sales figures, claiming that the Internet-only distribution was intended to boost later retail sales." So we adopt a museum convention in use at the Met and elsewhere for admissions: pay what you can afford for images. What could be more fair? What could draw more attention to our collections? Who knows, this might be the answer to Mariet Westermann's recommendation to streamline image licensing. When we build self-serve sites for image licensing which have trivial costs after the build, and especially if we are using the people's money, it is hard to justify charging for extant images of public domain art. As Mark Jones, director of the V&A remarked, paraphrased as told to me, "the people paid for this once, why should they pay again?" Nik, wish me luck getting this through. Alan Newman On 5/5/09 6:23 PM, "Nik Honeysett" wrote: > This reminds me of a classic example in the music industry in the early 90's. > Blue Note Record's legal team came across a 12" single called "The Band Played > the Boogie" featuring an illegal sampling of Grant Green's "Sookie Sookie", > enjoying a huge underground following. Rather than pursue a suit, Blue Note > hired the group and gave them access to their full back catalogue. The > resulting release was Blue Note's first platinum-selling album (Us3 - Hand on > the Torch). So, put your images out there, wait for someone to figure out > how to make money from them, then hire them. (wish me luck with getting that > through our general counsel). -nik _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ mcn-l mailing list mcn-l at mcn.edu http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l End of mcn-l Digest, Vol 44, Issue 21 ************************************* From psully at magnes.org Tue May 26 10:50:22 2009 From: psully at magnes.org (Perian Sully) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 10:50:22 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Virtualization In-Reply-To: <6f0314650905190553pd9b4805r39071bdcbb84218c@mail.gmail.com> References: <6f0314650905190553pd9b4805r39071bdcbb84218c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Apologies in advance for the very basic question, but I've seen a lot of discussion about virtualization lately, but I don't have a whole lot of background information. Does anyone have any particular references/ a nutshell answer that outline 1) what virtualization is, and 2) what the pros and cons are? I'd love to get caught up to the conversation! ~P Perian Sully Collections Information Manager Web Programs Strategist The Magnes Berkeley, CA From psully at magnes.org Tue May 26 10:58:57 2009 From: psully at magnes.org (Perian Sully) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 10:58:57 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Who manages your social media presence? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I manage the Twitter/blog/YouTube presence, with some input on both Facebook and Flickr. Facebook is managed by the Development and Marketing department while our Director of Collections and Research does the most work on Flickr. Most of the staff has access to provide input or content to any of these media. as to interfacing with PR/Marketing... heh. not well? Since I also do the updates to the website, when website updates are forwarded to me, I try to update all of the sites at once. We're trying to streamline the process, but there is a lot of training required of key staff before it will work smoothly. Perian Sully Collections Information Manager Web Programs Strategist The Magnes Berkeley, CA -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Melissa Kinkley Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:40 AM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: [MCN-L] Who manages your social media presence? Dear all, In your museum, does your PR/Marketing staff manage your presence on flickr, youtube, facebook, your blogs, etc. or someone else? If you have one, how does your New Media team interface with PR/Marketing? Thanks, Melissa Melissa H. Kinkley Manager of New Media & Family Interpretation Smart Museum of Art University of Chicago? 5550 S. Greenwood Ave. Chicago, IL 60637 ph. 773.702.2362 fax 773.702.3121 http://smartmuseum.uchicago.edu _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From rcherry at balboaparkonline.org Tue May 26 11:02:45 2009 From: rcherry at balboaparkonline.org (Rich Cherry) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:02:45 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Virtualization In-Reply-To: References: <6f0314650905190553pd9b4805r39071bdcbb84218c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0758790FE14FAD4FB84FE71572FD910C01C7A1E853@MAILR005.mail.lan> Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_virtualization -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Perian Sully Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:50 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Virtualization Apologies in advance for the very basic question, but I've seen a lot of discussion about virtualization lately, but I don't have a whole lot of background information. Does anyone have any particular references/ a nutshell answer that outline 1) what virtualization is, and 2) what the pros and cons are? I'd love to get caught up to the conversation! ~P Perian Sully Collections Information Manager Web Programs Strategist The Magnes Berkeley, CA _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From D-Beaudet at NGA.GOV Tue May 26 12:15:01 2009 From: D-Beaudet at NGA.GOV (Beaudet, David) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 15:15:01 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] mcn-l Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On virtualization: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_virtualization There are many free options for virtualization software. The one I prefer is the Zen hypervisor running on Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or it's free community maintained distribution called Cent OS which tends to be a few days behind with patch releases than its commercially managed counterpart). I find Linux to be a far superior choice for the host operating system than Windows, but there are also free versions of windows based products like VMWare Server, but the free versions are sometimes watered down. We're running both in production settings - the Linux option has proven to be more stable while VM Ware has a nice GUI. Either way, server consolidation will safe you money and, if you architect and backup correctly, it can assist with disaster recovery too. From dbenavraham at newmuseum.org Tue May 26 12:23:23 2009 From: dbenavraham at newmuseum.org (Doron Ben-Avraham) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 15:23:23 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Virtualization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2F26D29C50CB2843BC777C02AA16ABB201256AE9@new-sv-003.newmuseum.org> Perian On a basic level Virtualization creates an abstraction (referred to as HyperVisor) later between the operating system and the physical machine, this gives the ability to run several operating systems (Linux, Windows etc...) on a single physical host. If your machines have enough muscle, you can consolidate the number of system you carry, offering better utilization of the resources you have, and a decrease of energy overhead etc... The virtual machines all use the same set of drivers between instances, and it is also easier to create snapshots of a server state, and revert to it in time of need. It will also make the deployment of a new server platform easy, if you require a new OS for specific needs. You will need to formulate a backup and availability strategy should you experience a hardware failure (basically have another machine take over the hypervisor role) there are many ways to do this, and certain methods enable you to move from one machine to another with no downtime, at a very minimal amount of management. Also, one has to figure out what machine are utilized, for what, and how much CPU time, disk IO, and network resources they require in order to make a good strategy. The cons that often come up are Virtualization creeps, which basically mean that running another OS is so easy, soon if one isn't careful, you have a whole range of useless Virtual machines. Doron New Museum Of Contemporary Arts. -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of mcn-l-request at mcn.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 3:00 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: mcn-l Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23 Send mcn-l mailing list submissions to mcn-l at mcn.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mcn-l-request at mcn.edu You can reach the person managing the list at mcn-l-owner at mcn.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of mcn-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Virtualization (Perian Sully) 2. Re: Who manages your social media presence? (Perian Sully) 3. Re: Virtualization (Rich Cherry) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 10:50:22 -0700 From: "Perian Sully" Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Virtualization To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Apologies in advance for the very basic question, but I've seen a lot of discussion about virtualization lately, but I don't have a whole lot of background information. Does anyone have any particular references/ a nutshell answer that outline 1) what virtualization is, and 2) what the pros and cons are? I'd love to get caught up to the conversation! ~P Perian Sully Collections Information Manager Web Programs Strategist The Magnes Berkeley, CA ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 10:58:57 -0700 From: "Perian Sully" Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Who manages your social media presence? To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I manage the Twitter/blog/YouTube presence, with some input on both Facebook and Flickr. Facebook is managed by the Development and Marketing department while our Director of Collections and Research does the most work on Flickr. Most of the staff has access to provide input or content to any of these media. as to interfacing with PR/Marketing... heh. not well? Since I also do the updates to the website, when website updates are forwarded to me, I try to update all of the sites at once. We're trying to streamline the process, but there is a lot of training required of key staff before it will work smoothly. Perian Sully Collections Information Manager Web Programs Strategist The Magnes Berkeley, CA -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Melissa Kinkley Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:40 AM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: [MCN-L] Who manages your social media presence? Dear all, In your museum, does your PR/Marketing staff manage your presence on flickr, youtube, facebook, your blogs, etc. or someone else? If you have one, how does your New Media team interface with PR/Marketing? Thanks, Melissa Melissa H. Kinkley Manager of New Media & Family Interpretation Smart Museum of Art University of Chicago? 5550 S. Greenwood Ave. Chicago, IL 60637 ph. 773.702.2362 fax 773.702.3121 http://smartmuseum.uchicago.edu _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:02:45 -0400 From: Rich Cherry Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Virtualization To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Message-ID: <0758790FE14FAD4FB84FE71572FD910C01C7A1E853 at MAILR005.mail.lan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_virtualization -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Perian Sully Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:50 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Virtualization Apologies in advance for the very basic question, but I've seen a lot of discussion about virtualization lately, but I don't have a whole lot of background information. Does anyone have any particular references/ a nutshell answer that outline 1) what virtualization is, and 2) what the pros and cons are? I'd love to get caught up to the conversation! ~P Perian Sully Collections Information Manager Web Programs Strategist The Magnes Berkeley, CA _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ mcn-l mailing list mcn-l at mcn.edu http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l End of mcn-l Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23 ************************************* From lesleyeharris at comcast.net Tue May 26 14:12:55 2009 From: lesleyeharris at comcast.net (Lesley Ellen Harris) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 17:12:55 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Attending SLA in DC? Message-ID: <63095D4A-1A7C-4F10-9D74-C4FAAF8968CE@comcast.net> Please join me at a book signing on Sunday June 14 at 4:30 in the Expo Hall at the Convention Center in DC. If you have already bought a copy of Licensing Digital Content: A Practical Guide for Librarians, please bring it along and I'll be happy to sign it. If you have not, copies will be available. (Book blog is at www.licensingdigitalcontent.blogspot.com ) The book covers licensing issues for librarians in the US, Canada and around the world. I know that I'll see some of you in the classes on June 13 and 14 on Managing Copyright Issues; and Copyright Education -- if you haven't signed up yet, please email ssuggs at sla.org and she'll get you registered. Best, Lesley Lesley Ellen Harris lesley at copyrightlaws.com www.copyrightanswers.blogspot.com From sbrown at dmu.ac.uk Wed May 27 06:18:27 2009 From: sbrown at dmu.ac.uk (Stephen Brown) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 14:18:27 +0100 Subject: [MCN-L] Wilson Fellowship for MA Photographic History and Practice, De Montfort University Message-ID: <6158E45062142047BA3216CAA79674D13C7D7B@hemera.LEC-ADMIN.dmu.ac.uk> Apologies for cross posting: Wilson Fellowship for MA Photographic History and Practice, De Montfort University The Wilson Fellowship in Photographic History. Call for Applications. De Montfort University is pleased to announce the availability of one Wilson Fellowship for its new MA in Photographic History and Practice. The Fellowship offers ?5,000 toward the defrayal of tuition and other costs related to the MA, and is open to all students UK, EU and International. To apply for the Wilson Fellowship, please submit a piece of recent writing on photographic history no longer than 10,000 words, in English, to the Admissions Committee. For applications to the MA, please contact Student Recruitment at the Faculty of Art and Design at artanddesign at dmu.ac.uk or apply online at ukpass.ac.uk. For questions about the MA programme or the Wilson Fellowship please contact Programme Leader, Dr Kelley Wilder at kwilder at dmu.ac.uk. The MA in Photographic History and Practice is the first course of its kind in the UK. It lays the foundations for understanding the scope of photographic history and provides the tools to carry out the independent research in this larger context, working in particular from primary source material. In addition to our collaboration with the Wilson Centre for Photography Studies in London, we will work with the collections of the National Media Museum, Bradford, the Central Library, Birmingham, the British Library and private collections throughout Britain. Students handle photographic material, learn analogue photographic processes, write history from objects in collections, compare historical photographic movements, and debate the canon of photographic history. They also learn about digital preservation and access issues through practical design projects involving Website and database design. Research Methods are a core component, providing students with essential handling, writing, digitizing and presentation skills needed for MA and Research level work. Further modules will encourage independent thinking in theory and in history writing, introduce students to methodologies commonly encountered in photographic history, and set the students on a course for finding their own MA dissertation topic. Students receive expert advice on the thesis topic of their choosing, which is written in the summer months and submitted in September, one year after the course begins, in the case of full time study, or two years in the case of part-time. For further details on the course and application process, please download a course brochure from http://kmd.dmu.ac.uk/kmd_photohistory_page/HOPP.pdf. Professor Stephen Brown Director, Knowledge Media Design http://kmd.dmu.ac.uk tel: 0116 257 7173 mob: 07989 948230 From waibelg at oclc.org Wed May 27 10:03:44 2009 From: waibelg at oclc.org (Waibel,Guenter) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 13:03:44 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Image Licensing Message-ID: I really enjoyed the recent exchange about image licensing, and as I re-read earlier entries of that rich thread, I started copying & pasting some of the things most interesting to me into a text file. Before I knew it, I had a little document full of nuggets which I thought very nicely lay out the state of the discussion around image licensing in the museum community. I've written a blog posting about all of this at http://hangingtogether.org/?p=692, in case you'd like to revisit. Cheers, G?nter *** G?nter Waibel Program Officer, OCLC Research 777 Mariners Island Blvd. Suite 550 San Mateo CA 94404 voice: +1-650-287-2144 G?nter blogs at ... http://www.hangingtogether.org From aridavidow at gmail.com Wed May 27 14:13:42 2009 From: aridavidow at gmail.com (Ari Davidow) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:13:42 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] A good 3rd party credit card transaction handler? Message-ID: <747cfaf50905271413s5b649a66sbca9895ae50e84c6@mail.gmail.com> At my organization we use Acceptiva for all of our online credit card transactions. I like working with them. They actively try to make things work better for us, they're responsive, and reasonably priced. (They have limitations in terms of form layout, but nothing we can't live with at our size/needs.) I've been talking with some other folks who have been suggesting Google's service (Google check-out?) for annual memberships in another organization. I'd like to steer clear of Google because they require that everyone be a registered user, logged in, before they can pay. This is a pain for people who might give us money once or twice a year--or in the case of say, the organization in question, renew membership once and, if lucky, attend an event or two during the year. What is other folks' experience? If you're not hosting it all yourself (and I hope nobody who isn't forced to by an idiot board and isn't a bank is doing so), what works best for you? What flexibility in handling transactions do you get that makes one service work better for you than another? ari From aridavidow at gmail.com Wed May 27 14:19:07 2009 From: aridavidow at gmail.com (Ari Davidow) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:19:07 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Website surveys - the good, the bad, the ugly Message-ID: <747cfaf50905271419u701ca7d4v6e4f88658351793c@mail.gmail.com> I apologize for the cross-posting. We really want to get a sense of how well people feel our website serves them. (Don't get me started on what "serves them well" means.) I'd like to find someone, preferably based in Boston, who can help us put together a good survey so that we can better understand site visitor satisfaction, and perhaps, understand a bit better what draws the people currently visiting our site there. We don't need technology--we can use Survey Monkey, or put together something in our CMS--but I want someone who understands statistics and what questions to ask to best solicit useful information for a non-profit online site. Any suggestions? War stories? Many thanks, Ari From A-Newman at NGA.GOV Thu May 28 10:51:04 2009 From: A-Newman at NGA.GOV (Newman, Alan) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 13:51:04 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Image Licensing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And cheers to you G?enter. Very nicely done. If we are wrangled into translating the low/no cost distribution of images of public domain works into a business plan we could calculate the multiplier effect of dramatically increased eyeballs on the images, especially in educational environments. This leads to more museum visitors which in turn leads to X dollars a visitor spends in shops, restaurants and admissions. Then we estimate the staff time saved and the minimal revenue lost and graph it all. A good economist could drive this into a believable equation that demonstrates more real revenue by open access. As Radiohead showed in my music example, good will and doing the right thing actually can work financially in the cultural community. Think of all the teachers out there trying to scan our images from books when faced with barriers to receiving good images for the classroom. We want them to come to the source and have respect their time. Amalyah, we?ll discuss this all with G?enter in Portland. Alan ======== Alan Newman National Gallery of Art On 5/27/09 1:03 PM, "G?enter Waibel" wrote: > I really enjoyed the recent exchange about image licensing, and as I re-read > earlier entries of that rich thread, I started copying & pasting some of the > things most interesting to me into a text file. Before I knew it, I had a > little document full of nuggets which I thought very nicely lay out the state > of the discussion around image licensing in the museum community. I've written > a blog posting about all of this at http://hangingtogether.org/?p=692, in case > you'd like to revisit. > > > > Cheers, > > G?nter > > > > *** > > > > G?nter Waibel > Program Officer, OCLC Research > > > > 777 Mariners Island Blvd. Suite 550 > San Mateo CA 94404 > voice: +1-650-287-2144 > > > > G?nter blogs at ... http://www.hangingtogether.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer > Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From rebecca at earley.com Thu May 28 12:16:29 2009 From: rebecca at earley.com (Rebecca Allen) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 12:16:29 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] (Event) Taxonomy for Portals - June 3rd Taxonomy Community of Practice Call Message-ID: <1BA1D3B187889949807E12A78D7EA83B70049A54D3@EXMBX04.exchhosting.com> Invitation Please join us for our monthly Taxonomy Community of Practice Call. This month's topic is Taxonomy for Portals. Date: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 Time: 1:00 - 2:00 Eastern Time Cost: $50 For additional details, visit: http://earley.com/_June2009.asp To register, please contact Rebecca Allen at rebecca at earley.com or call direct 425-299-5400 Metadata Benchmark Survey Special Promotion - Free Pass to June 3 Call Would you like a free pass to this conference call? Participate in our benchmark survey on Metadata Maturity and be our guest for the upcoming session on Taxonomy for Portals - a $50 value. Why participate? Learn about where your company stands relative to your industry, understand the benefits that businesses are realizing from metadata, and find tangible opportunities for improved information ROI. Don't miss this opportunity to weigh in on the state of the industry! Survey Link: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=TEtPrAKwkiKIXhkey6revA_3d_3d Taxonomy for Portals Session Description All aspects of portal development can benefit from taxonomy principles. Portals are used to organize, distribute and facilitate connections to information or people within an organization. This session will describe the concept, approach and tools required to apply taxonomy dynamically to create portal applications that meet user requirements. The objective is to show how taxonomy can be used to provide a rich and access framework for search, navigation, transaction and browsing content. After a brief overview from Ralph Poole, Giovanni Piazza will describe how taxonomy is used to create access to all content within the enterprise. Interestingly, Ernst & Young's portal is entirely driven by personal profiles and taxonomy. Session Presenters Ralph Poole, Senior Consultant, Earley & Associates Ralph is a respected business leader and accomplished executive. He has extensive experience leading Knowledge Management, Technology Implementation, Information Architecture, and consulting projects in global companies. He held senior executive positions in four of the world's premier management consulting and IT consulting firms: Boston Consulting Group, Bain & Company, Ernst &Young LLP, and Capgemini (a French IT consultancy). In this capacity, Ralph built multidisciplinary teams across several continents and was responsible for radically improving global learning and development, knowledge management and intranet application environments. Giovanni Piazza, Chief Knowledge Officer, Ernst & Young Currently a Global Director with the Center for Business Knowledge at Ernst & Young LLP, Giovanni Piazza is responsible for the architecture, design and implementation of KnowledgeWeb, the Ernst & Young comprehensive Knowledge Sharing family of tools, processes and architectures. He is also responsible for The EY Home Page, the firm global intranet, as well as the Enterprise Search program, the User Experience program and the Taxonomy and Metadata Management Program. Leveraging diverse architectures and platforms, KWeb, The EY Home Page and the Enterprise Search cover all Knowledge and Content Management processes (contribution, filtering, storage, in context and out of context retrieval, tool based retrieval). Optimize Your SharePoint Investment Can't Find Content in SharePoint? Join us for a free 4-part Jumpstart Webinar series dedicated to demystifying and revitalizing your SharePoint search. Beginning on June 4 with a focus on SharePoint Strategy, the series will cover a variety of methods for improving search experience and results while maximizing enterprise value from your SharePoint deployment. Register: http://www.earley.com/SharePointSearchJumpstart.asp?utm_campaign=sharepoint%20jumpstart&utm_medium=JuneCoPMailing Thank you, Rebecca Allen Taxonomy Consultant _____________________________ EARLEY & ASSOCIATES Cell: 425-299-5400 Email: rebecca at earley.com Web: www.earley.com From Kristine.Zickuhr at dva.state.wi.us Thu May 28 12:23:50 2009 From: Kristine.Zickuhr at dva.state.wi.us (Zickuhr, Kristine) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 14:23:50 -0500 Subject: [MCN-L] Advice on advanced degree for museum technology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi everyone, Could anyone offer advice on an advanced degree that would helpful for working with emerging museum technology? I've considered a Masters in Museum Studies but the curriculum seems too broad. I'm a Registrar and I'm particularly interested in digital image standards, rotational photography, online databases, virtualization, etc.. We have IT staff at my current institution but I'd like to try to keep up. I know enough to be dangerous, but that's about it! Is anyone aware of a program that merges technology and the arts or humanities? Or is there a straight technology degree or certificate that you would recommend instead? An online degree or one offered in Wisconsin would be particularly helpful. Thank you for your input. Kristine Zickuhr Wisconsin Veterans Museum From ewg4xuva at gmail.com Thu May 28 12:43:26 2009 From: ewg4xuva at gmail.com (Ethan Gruber) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 15:43:26 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Advice on advanced degree for museum technology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kristine, There are a number of universities that have contemplated establishing digital humanities programs, either degree programs, minors, whatever. The spectrum is broad. I believe that George Mason University has recently (or in the near future) begun to offer a Ph.D. in digital humanities, although I am not sure what that entails. The definition of "digital humanities" varies depending on who you ask. You might want to check out the following thread on thatcamp.org, a site promoting The Humanitis and Technology unconference coming up next month. http://thatcamp.org/2009/05/cebula-proposal-for-thatcamp/ As for programs that offer instruction similar to what you desire, you may want to look into an MLIS degree. Those are offered online from various reputable institutions. They are specific to libraries, of course, but the fundamentals of technology to aid in access and dissemination of information are pretty much the same between museums and libraries. A lot of the things you talk about can be learned by attending conferences and seminars and networking with people who are more familiar with the technology than yourself. I think XML and semantic search are the future of museum catalogs, not databases, in any case. Ethan University of Virginia Library On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Zickuhr, Kristine < Kristine.Zickuhr at dva.state.wi.us> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Could anyone offer advice on an advanced degree that would helpful for > working with emerging museum technology? I've considered a Masters in > Museum Studies but the curriculum seems too broad. I'm a Registrar and > I'm particularly interested in digital image standards, rotational > photography, online databases, virtualization, etc.. We have IT staff at > my current institution but I'd like to try to keep up. I know enough to > be dangerous, but that's about it! > > Is anyone aware of a program that merges technology and the arts or > humanities? Or is there a straight technology degree or certificate > that you would recommend instead? An online degree or one offered in > Wisconsin would be particularly helpful. > > Thank you for your input. > > Kristine Zickuhr > Wisconsin Veterans Museum > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer > Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > From D-Beaudet at NGA.GOV Thu May 28 12:45:41 2009 From: D-Beaudet at NGA.GOV (Beaudet, David) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 15:45:41 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] A good 3rd party credit card transaction handler? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A decision was made to host internally after reviewing various external authorization options, including hosted forms and back-end APIs over secure channels. We have federal privacy concerns to contend with in addition to PCI that complicated the decision, but frankly the primary reason for hosting our own payment switch is that we felt we could secure the data better than a third party. Another factor is that these large authorization services are huge targets and we didn't want to risk our users' sensitive data with systems outside of our control. Other large museums are using them. The purchase price of ours was about $20k. Smaller institutions might be better off with externally hosted, form-based, payment solutions since those solutions will make PCI compliance MUCH easier for e-commerce based systems. Essentially, the external form solution takes your e-commerce web site out of PCI scope entirely. Limited PCI scope is one of the keys to making PCI compliance manageable. >Message: 1 >Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:13:42 -0400 >From: Ari Davidow >Subject: [MCN-L] A good 3rd party credit card transaction handler? >To: Museum Computer Network Listserv >Message-ID: > <747cfaf50905271413s5b649a66sbca9895ae50e84c6 at mail.gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >At my organization we use Acceptiva for all of our online credit card >transactions. I like working with them. They actively try to make things >work better for us, they're responsive, and reasonably priced. (They have >limitations in terms of form layout, but nothing we can't live with at our >size/needs.) > >I've been talking with some other folks who have been suggesting Google's >service (Google check-out?) for annual memberships in another organization. >I'd like to steer clear of Google because they require that everyone be a >registered user, logged in, before they can pay. This is a pain for people >who might give us money once or twice a year--or in the case of say, the >organization in question, renew membership once and, if lucky, attend an >event or two during the year. > >What is other folks' experience? If you're not hosting it all yourself (and >I hope nobody who isn't forced to by an idiot board and isn't a bank is >doing so), what works best for you? What flexibility in handling >transactions do you get that makes one service work better for you than >another? > >ari From jana.hill at cartermuseum.org Thu May 28 12:52:43 2009 From: jana.hill at cartermuseum.org (JanaH) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 14:52:43 -0500 Subject: [MCN-L] Advice on advanced degree for museum technology Message-ID: <49A6E411EE69EA4898AFA579D8A06DFC021B0691@exchange.cartermuseum.org> Hi Kristine, Have you considered MLS programs? A lot of folks in the MCN community have library science degrees (myself included) and work in museum technology. The skill set is easily transferable from one field to the other. I'm sure someone on this list could tell you which program(s) might be worth looking into...? Jana Hill Associate Registrar, Collection Information Amon Carter Museum 3501 Camp Bowie Blvd., Fort Worth, TX 76107 t. 817.989.5173 f. 817.989.5179 www.cartermuseum.org -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Zickuhr, Kristine Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:24 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: [MCN-L] Advice on advanced degree for museum technology Hi everyone, Could anyone offer advice on an advanced degree that would helpful for working with emerging museum technology? I've considered a Masters in Museum Studies but the curriculum seems too broad. I'm a Registrar and I'm particularly interested in digital image standards, rotational photography, online databases, virtualization, etc.. We have IT staff at my current institution but I'd like to try to keep up. I know enough to be dangerous, but that's about it! Is anyone aware of a program that merges technology and the arts or humanities? Or is there a straight technology degree or certificate that you would recommend instead? An online degree or one offered in Wisconsin would be particularly helpful. Thank you for your input. Kristine Zickuhr Wisconsin Veterans Museum _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From bolde001 at umn.edu Thu May 28 12:54:07 2009 From: bolde001 at umn.edu (Jill Boldenow) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 14:54:07 -0500 Subject: [MCN-L] Advice on advanced degree for museum technology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Check out the Johns Hopkins Master of Arts in Museum Studies with its emphasis on technology. Jill Boldenow On May 28, 2009, at 2:23 PM, Zickuhr, Kristine wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Could anyone offer advice on an advanced degree that would helpful for > working with emerging museum technology? I've considered a Masters in > Museum Studies but the curriculum seems too broad. I'm a Registrar > and > I'm particularly interested in digital image standards, rotational > photography, online databases, virtualization, etc.. We have IT > staff at > my current institution but I'd like to try to keep up. I know > enough to > be dangerous, but that's about it! > > Is anyone aware of a program that merges technology and the arts or > humanities? Or is there a straight technology degree or certificate > that you would recommend instead? An online degree or one offered in > Wisconsin would be particularly helpful. > > Thank you for your input. > > Kristine Zickuhr > Wisconsin Veterans Museum > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From nmckeen-laclair at shelburnemuseum.org Thu May 28 13:37:36 2009 From: nmckeen-laclair at shelburnemuseum.org (Narda McKeen-LaClair) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 16:37:36 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] Advice on advanced degree for museum technology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <831C2E61E09EF642868B6750DA987285DCB2E6@sm-srv1.shelburne.local> I would suggest an MLIS as well - The MLIS program at Drexel University (On-Line)is worth looking at. Plenty of classes available on Archiving, Digital Preservation, Database development, new technologies, virtualization, management of electronic resources, Web 2.0, XML, just about anything you are interested in. When I left libraries behind and entered the museum world I was amazed at how well the courses I took I at Drexel prepared me for this position. Good luck, Narda "Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple." - Dr. Seuss Narda McKeen LaClair Technology Administrator Shelburne Museum PO Box 10 Shelburne, VT, 05482 (802)985-3346 x3196 ----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Zickuhr, Kristine Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 3:24 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: [MCN-L] Advice on advanced degree for museum technology Hi everyone, Could anyone offer advice on an advanced degree that would helpful for working with emerging museum technology? I've considered a Masters in Museum Studies but the curriculum seems too broad. I'm a Registrar and I'm particularly interested in digital image standards, rotational photography, online databases, virtualization, etc.. We have IT staff at my current institution but I'd like to try to keep up. I know enough to be dangerous, but that's about it! Is anyone aware of a program that merges technology and the arts or humanities? Or is there a straight technology degree or certificate that you would recommend instead? An online degree or one offered in Wisconsin would be particularly helpful. Thank you for your input. Kristine Zickuhr Wisconsin Veterans Museum _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From khamma at me.com Thu May 28 13:48:09 2009 From: khamma at me.com (Kenneth Hamma) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 13:48:09 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Image Licensing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We all assume you haven't forgotten to apply your multiplier also to online sale of products, right where those eyeballs are and with as much third-party involvement (fulfillment, payment transaction, hosting) as you wish. Just make it so easy and convenient in your branded venue (National Gallery = as good as it gets) that most everyone who is drawn by that won't care that you might not have a monopoly on the use of the images. ken Kenneth Hamma On May 28, 2009, at 10:51 AM, Newman, Alan wrote: > And cheers to you G?enter. > Very nicely done. > > If we are wrangled into translating the low/no cost distribution of > images > of public domain works into a business plan we could calculate the > multiplier effect of dramatically increased eyeballs on the images, > especially in educational environments. This leads to more museum > visitors > which in turn leads to X dollars a visitor spends in shops, > restaurants and > admissions. Then we estimate the staff time saved and the minimal > revenue > lost and graph it all. A good economist could drive this into a > believable > equation that demonstrates more real revenue by open access. As > Radiohead > showed in my music example, good will and doing the right thing > actually can > work financially in the cultural community. > > Think of all the teachers out there trying to scan our images from > books > when faced with barriers to receiving good images for the classroom. > We want them to come to the source and have respect their time. > > Amalyah, we?ll discuss this all with G?enter in Portland. > > Alan > > ======== > > Alan Newman > National Gallery of Art > > > On 5/27/09 1:03 PM, "G?enter Waibel" wrote: > >> I really enjoyed the recent exchange about image licensing, and as >> I re-read >> earlier entries of that rich thread, I started copying & pasting >> some of the >> things most interesting to me into a text file. Before I knew it, I >> had a >> little document full of nuggets which I thought very nicely lay out >> the state >> of the discussion around image licensing in the museum community. >> I've written >> a blog posting about all of this at http://hangingtogether.org/? >> p=692, in case >> you'd like to revisit. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> G?nter >> >> >> >> *** >> >> >> >> G?nter Waibel >> Program Officer, OCLC Research >> >> >> >> 777 Mariners Island Blvd. Suite 550 >> San Mateo CA 94404 >> voice: +1-650-287-2144 >> >> >> >> G?nter blogs at ... http://www.hangingtogether.org >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum >> Computer >> Network (http://www.mcn.edu) >> >> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu >> >> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l >> >> The MCN-L archives can be found at: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From robin.dowden at walkerart.org Thu May 28 19:31:17 2009 From: robin.dowden at walkerart.org (Dowden, Robin) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 21:31:17 -0500 Subject: [MCN-L] do you Skype? Message-ID: <025C34E61656DF4B89B345C25F9155810EB2721621@WACEXCHVC.walkerart.biz> Do you allow Skype in your institution? I?ve been arguing for its legitimacy as a business tool but our IT department is concerned about misuse and security issues. I?m interested in hearing how/if others are using it, policies, tales of compromised networks as a result of peer-to-peer apps, any relevant or related info you're willing to share. Robin Dowden Director, New Media Initiatives Walker Art Center 1750 Hennepin Avenue Minneapolis, MN 55403 USA T: 612.375.7541 F: 612.375.7575 walkerart.org CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is confidential, is intended only for the individual or entity named above, and may contain privileged, work product, proprietary and/or confidential information that is exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or otherwise believe you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, use of or reliance upon any of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. Any inadvertent or unauthorized disclosure shall not compromise or waive the confidentiality of this transmission or any applicable attorney-client privilege. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us at mail1 at walkerart.org and delete this transmission from your computer. From lensteinbach at gmail.com Thu May 28 19:54:44 2009 From: lensteinbach at gmail.com (Leonard Steinbach) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 22:54:44 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] do you Skype? In-Reply-To: <025C34E61656DF4B89B345C25F9155810EB2721621@WACEXCHVC.walkerart.biz> References: <025C34E61656DF4B89B345C25F9155810EB2721621@WACEXCHVC.walkerart.biz> Message-ID: Starting back in March (?) Skype initiated a new drive toward business users and has a section on its web site....although they are pushing skype for sip. Here is a WSJ article on it, which also notes Skype's security claims. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123776338990608661.html On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Dowden, Robin wrote: > Do you allow Skype in your institution? I?ve been arguing for its > legitimacy as a business tool but our IT department is concerned about > misuse and security issues. I?m interested in hearing how/if others are > using it, policies, tales of compromised networks as a result of > peer-to-peer apps, any relevant or related info you're willing to share. > > Robin Dowden > Director, New Media Initiatives > Walker Art Center > 1750 Hennepin Avenue > Minneapolis, MN 55403 > USA > > T: 612.375.7541 > F: 612.375.7575 > walkerart.org > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This transmission (including any accompanying > attachments) is confidential, is intended only for the individual or entity > named above, and may contain privileged, work product, proprietary and/or > confidential information that is exempt from disclosure under applicable > law. If you are not the intended recipient or otherwise believe you have > received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, > copying, distribution, use of or reliance upon any of the information > contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. Any inadvertent or > unauthorized disclosure shall not compromise or waive the confidentiality of > this transmission or any applicable attorney-client privilege. > > If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify > us at mail1 at walkerart.org and delete this transmission from your computer. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer > Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > From sgrinols at famsf.org Thu May 28 23:09:59 2009 From: sgrinols at famsf.org (Sue Grinols) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 23:09:59 -0700 Subject: [MCN-L] Website surveys - the good, the bad, the ugly References: <747cfaf50905271419u701ca7d4v6e4f88658351793c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8125F8F32B28244EB06013A724DA9E47058242@dymail.famsf.org> Hi Ari, Check out www.createwithcontext.com. This sort of thing is right up their alley. They're based in the SF area and if they can't help you I'm sure they can provide a referral. Best, Sue Grinols Director Photo Services and Imaging Fine Arts Museums San Francisco -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Ari Davidow Sent: Wed 5/27/2009 2:19 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv; nten-discuss at groups.nten.org Subject: [MCN-L] Website surveys - the good, the bad, the ugly I apologize for the cross-posting. We really want to get a sense of how well people feel our website serves them. (Don't get me started on what "serves them well" means.) I'd like to find someone, preferably based in Boston, who can help us put together a good survey so that we can better understand site visitor satisfaction, and perhaps, understand a bit better what draws the people currently visiting our site there. We don't need technology--we can use Survey Monkey, or put together something in our CMS--but I want someone who understands statistics and what questions to ask to best solicit useful information for a non-profit online site. Any suggestions? War stories? Many thanks, Ari _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From akeshet at imj.org.il Fri May 29 01:30:55 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:30:55 +0200 Subject: [MCN-L] =?utf-8?b?4oCP4oCPUkU6ICBJbWFnZSBMaWNlbnNpbmc=?= In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4ABB9229@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Alan: The difficulty is, even an economist can't prove a causal link between "increased eyeballs on the images" and "more museum visitors." You would have to stand at the door and ask every incoming visitor "Are you here today because you saw or downloaded an image of a work in our collection? Which one?" It's much easier and more convincing to prove a connection between a marketing campaign, a special event, or some other datable cause and its measurable effect (10% increase in entrance ticket sales between the ad campaign dates of ...). It's also infinitely easier to prove a cause-and-effect connection between an image sale, the receipt of a check, and it's deposit in the bank. As for staff time saved, that's another assumption that disappoints. It takes a lot of staff time to tend, maintain, grow, keyword, and support a download site -- and if it's successful, it results in even more requests for one-on-one help with custom requests that require advice, negotiation, curatorial consultation, and personal service. Your comment about teachers is interesting. My first reaction was, we are delighted and relieved when they do their own scanning and respect our time, which we need in order to accomplish our own institution's projects on deadline. But that is simply an indication of the conflict that arises when the same staff have to try and meet conflicting goals with the same limited resources. More to the point, most of both of our museums' images are probably in Google Images by now -- Google Images is, after all, the universal "solution" in the "cloud." But I do agree with you that, in the best of all possible worlds, we would beat out Google Images with better quality images (and certainly better caption information) that people could search and discover effortlessly, and download. And that would require a hefty monetary investment. Back to square one. Amalyah ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Newman, Alan [A-Newman at NGA.GOV] ??????: ????? ????? 28 ??? 2009 20:51 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] Image Licensing And cheers to you G?enter. Very nicely done. If we are wrangled into translating the low/no cost distribution of images of public domain works into a business plan we could calculate the multiplier effect of dramatically increased eyeballs on the images, especially in educational environments. This leads to more museum visitors which in turn leads to X dollars a visitor spends in shops, restaurants and admissions. Then we estimate the staff time saved and the minimal revenue lost and graph it all. A good economist could drive this into a believable equation that demonstrates more real revenue by open access. As Radiohead showed in my music example, good will and doing the right thing actually can work financially in the cultural community. Think of all the teachers out there trying to scan our images from books when faced with barriers to receiving good images for the classroom. We want them to come to the source and have respect their time. Amalyah, we?ll discuss this all with G?enter in Portland. Alan ======== Alan Newman National Gallery of Art On 5/27/09 1:03 PM, "G?enter Waibel" wrote: > I really enjoyed the recent exchange about image licensing, and as I re-read > earlier entries of that rich thread, I started copying & pasting some of the > things most interesting to me into a text file. Before I knew it, I had a > little document full of nuggets which I thought very nicely lay out the state > of the discussion around image licensing in the museum community. I've written > a blog posting about all of this at http://hangingtogether.org/?p=692, in case > you'd like to revisit. > > > > Cheers, > > G?nter > > > > *** > > > > G?nter Waibel > Program Officer, OCLC Research > > > > 777 Mariners Island Blvd. Suite 550 > San Mateo CA 94404 > voice: +1-650-287-2144 > > > > G?nter blogs at ... http://www.hangingtogether.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer > Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From akeshet at imj.org.il Fri May 29 01:51:49 2009 From: akeshet at imj.org.il (Amalyah Keshet [akeshet@imj.org.il]) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:51:49 +0200 Subject: [MCN-L] =?utf-8?b?4oCP4oCPUkU6ICBJbWFnZSBMaWNlbnNpbmc=?= In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <9844AFCBFFF93540889F30E865CEFD781F4ABB922A@mailsrv.imj.org.il> Good point. This is where (by recording link-throughs) a cause-and-effect could actually be proved, and revenue "credited" to the source (the online image). Without any recordable connection between that source and that sale, it's difficult for our hypothetical economist to prove that the source is worth investing in. Amalyah ________________________________________ ?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Kenneth Hamma [khamma at me.com] ??????: ????? ????? 28 ??? 2009 23:48 ????: Museum Computer Network Listserv ??????: Re: [MCN-L] Image Licensing We all assume you haven't forgotten to apply your multiplier also to online sale of products, right where those eyeballs are and with as much third-party involvement (fulfillment, payment transaction, hosting) as you wish. Just make it so easy and convenient in your branded venue (National Gallery = as good as it gets) that most everyone who is drawn by that won't care that you might not have a monopoly on the use of the images. ken Kenneth Hamma On May 28, 2009, at 10:51 AM, Newman, Alan wrote: > And cheers to you G?enter. > Very nicely done. > > If we are wrangled into translating the low/no cost distribution of > images > of public domain works into a business plan we could calculate the > multiplier effect of dramatically increased eyeballs on the images, > especially in educational environments. This leads to more museum > visitors > which in turn leads to X dollars a visitor spends in shops, > restaurants and > admissions. Then we estimate the staff time saved and the minimal > revenue > lost and graph it all. A good economist could drive this into a > believable > equation that demonstrates more real revenue by open access. As > Radiohead > showed in my music example, good will and doing the right thing > actually can > work financially in the cultural community. > > Think of all the teachers out there trying to scan our images from > books > when faced with barriers to receiving good images for the classroom. > We want them to come to the source and have respect their time. > > Amalyah, we?ll discuss this all with G?enter in Portland. > > Alan > > ======== > > Alan Newman > National Gallery of Art > > > On 5/27/09 1:03 PM, "G?enter Waibel" wrote: > >> I really enjoyed the recent exchange about image licensing, and as >> I re-read >> earlier entries of that rich thread, I started copying & pasting >> some of the >> things most interesting to me into a text file. Before I knew it, I >> had a >> little document full of nuggets which I thought very nicely lay out >> the state >> of the discussion around image licensing in the museum community. >> I've written >> a blog posting about all of this at http://hangingtogether.org/? >> p=692, in case >> you'd like to revisit. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> G?nter >> >> >> >> *** >> >> >> >> G?nter Waibel >> Program Officer, OCLC Research >> >> >> >> 777 Mariners Island Blvd. Suite 550 >> San Mateo CA 94404 >> voice: +1-650-287-2144 >> >> >> >> G?nter blogs at ... http://www.hangingtogether.org >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum >> Computer >> Network (http://www.mcn.edu) >> >> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu >> >> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l >> >> The MCN-L archives can be found at: >> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum > Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From aridavidow at gmail.com Fri May 29 04:06:01 2009 From: aridavidow at gmail.com (Ari Davidow) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 07:06:01 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] do you Skype? In-Reply-To: <025C34E61656DF4B89B345C25F9155810EB2721621@WACEXCHVC.walkerart.biz> References: <025C34E61656DF4B89B345C25F9155810EB2721621@WACEXCHVC.walkerart.biz> Message-ID: <747cfaf50905290406n26bbcf5pbbc5f48e658583d9@mail.gmail.com> I don't think of Skype as a P2P application--it is =not= one in the traditional sense of, say, the file sharing networks. It provides excellent security and encryption for transferring files between skype users--much saner than attaching emails, or sftping files up and down to/from a server. We keep ours pretty locked down--none of our users broadcast their existence, so the only way people know the accounts even exist, other than by accident (and remembering the usual "obscurity is not security" principles--those accounts are hard to find, but not impossible to find). This keeps unwanted attention to a minimum. To be honest, compared to other IM or file sharing options Skype seems unusually secure. As a way to save business costs by using voip, it seems to work reasonably well. Ari On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Dowden, Robin wrote: > Do you allow Skype in your institution? I?ve been arguing for its legitimacy as a business tool but our IT department is concerned about misuse and security issues. I?m interested in hearing how/if others are using it, policies, tales of compromised networks as a result of peer-to-peer apps, any relevant or related info you're willing to share. > > Robin Dowden > Director, New Media Initiatives > Walker Art Center > 1750 Hennepin Avenue > Minneapolis, MN 55403 > USA > > T: 612.375.7541 > F: 612.375.7575 > walkerart.org > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: ?This transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is confidential, is intended only for the individual or entity named above, and may contain privileged, work product, proprietary and/or confidential information that is exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or otherwise believe you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, use of or reliance upon any of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. Any inadvertent or unauthorized disclosure shall not compromise or waive the confidentiality of this transmission or any applicable attorney-client privilege. > > If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us at mail1 at walkerart.org and delete this transmission from your computer. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) > > To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > > The MCN-L archives can be found at: > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ > From dave at NLEOMF.ORG Fri May 29 08:50:44 2009 From: dave at NLEOMF.ORG (David Salovesh) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 11:50:44 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] do you Skype? In-Reply-To: <025C34E61656DF4B89B345C25F9155810EB2721621@WACEXCHVC.walkerart.biz> References: <025C34E61656DF4B89B345C25F9155810EB2721621@WACEXCHVC.walkerart.biz> Message-ID: <65656E58CE28E7408ADD445F7DD120CC11ADFD898A@fs2.NLEM.int> Ad-hoc Skype is explicitly banned here. It may return someday as an organizational initiative, but we're still trying to figure out what the benefit would be for us. (We have sponsored phone service and have virtually no international communication requirements, so our economics may not be typical.) It wasn't always this way - I allowed it for a while. I originally had to ban it because we were short on bandwidth, and some folks couldn't resist using it in ways that completely overwhelmed our connection. That led to a temporary suspension of Skype use pending system analysis, improvements, and re-analysis. After we upgraded our connection I discovered the more troubling property of Skype traffic that led to the current outright ban: As I understand it, Skype can exist as a "free" service because each user donates spare bandwidth to carrying calls for other users. For home or home-like use that's probably okay since the bandwidth Skype sees as idle is probably actually so. In an enterprise or enterprise-like setting, the individual Skype clients don't do as good a job at measuring excess capacity. My previous service was SDSL at 1.5 mbps, and with 45 people in the office our utilization was over 95% at all times. My second site users were essentially unable to work, and even main site users were losing patience. After the upgrade to 10 mbps (metro-Ethernet), my typical utilization went to 20% (peaking at 90%, but only occasionally and briefly - as it should be) and my remote users were very satisfied. But after installing Skype, even with no active calls and the software sitting "idle", my utilization went back up to 90%. I searched for workarounds or ways to manage its bandwidth consumption, but it's not really designed for managed operation - or may even be designed to work AROUND management. It definitely is designed to work around firewall restrictions, so my technological means to block the traffic were somewhat limited. On the bright side, this sequence of events raised the consequences of installing software without approval from "it'll piss off the IT department" to "you could get fired for it". ;-) Dave Salovesh Information Technology Manager National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Dowden, Robin Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:31 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] do you Skype? Do you allow Skype in your institution? I've been arguing for its legitimacy as a business tool but our IT department is concerned about misuse and security issues. I'm interested in hearing how/if others are using it, policies, tales of compromised networks as a result of peer-to-peer apps, any relevant or related info you're willing to share. Robin Dowden Director, New Media Initiatives Walker Art Center 1750 Hennepin Avenue Minneapolis, MN 55403 USA T: 612.375.7541 F: 612.375.7575 walkerart.org CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is confidential, is intended only for the individual or entity named above, and may contain privileged, work product, proprietary and/or confidential information that is exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or otherwise believe you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, use of or reliance upon any of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. Any inadvertent or unauthorized disclosure shall not compromise or waive the confidentiality of this transmission or any applicable attorney-client privilege. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us at mail1 at walkerart.org and delete this transmission from your computer. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From Thomas.Deliduka at cmaohio.org Fri May 29 11:42:32 2009 From: Thomas.Deliduka at cmaohio.org (Thomas Deliduka) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 14:42:32 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] do you Skype? In-Reply-To: <65656E58CE28E7408ADD445F7DD120CC11ADFD898A@fs2.NLEM.int> References: <025C34E61656DF4B89B345C25F9155810EB2721621@WACEXCHVC.walkerart.biz> <65656E58CE28E7408ADD445F7DD120CC11ADFD898A@fs2.NLEM.int> Message-ID: <307ABFF8E627124A8D6449D1292A162E24F155@cma-srv-xch-01.cmaohio.org> I'm a little confused. Why would Skype need to run down someone's pipe only to jump back out again in a way of utilizing bandwidth for other calls? That seems quite inefficient to take a detour in routing of a telephone call. Thomas Deliduka Director of Information Technology Columbus Museum of Art 480 East Broad Street Columbus, OH 43215 ph 614/629-0345 fax 614/629-0950 thomas.deliduka at cmaohio.org ? ART SPEAKS. JOIN THE CONVERSATION -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of David Salovesh Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:51 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] do you Skype? Ad-hoc Skype is explicitly banned here. It may return someday as an organizational initiative, but we're still trying to figure out what the benefit would be for us. (We have sponsored phone service and have virtually no international communication requirements, so our economics may not be typical.) It wasn't always this way - I allowed it for a while. I originally had to ban it because we were short on bandwidth, and some folks couldn't resist using it in ways that completely overwhelmed our connection. That led to a temporary suspension of Skype use pending system analysis, improvements, and re-analysis. After we upgraded our connection I discovered the more troubling property of Skype traffic that led to the current outright ban: As I understand it, Skype can exist as a "free" service because each user donates spare bandwidth to carrying calls for other users. For home or home-like use that's probably okay since the bandwidth Skype sees as idle is probably actually so. In an enterprise or enterprise-like setting, the individual Skype clients don't do as good a job at measuring excess capacity. My previous service was SDSL at 1.5 mbps, and with 45 people in the office our utilization was over 95% at all times. My second site users were essentially unable to work, and even main site users were losing patience. After the upgrade to 10 mbps (metro-Ethernet), my typical utilization went to 20% (peaking at 90%, but only occasionally and briefly - as it should be) and my remote users were very satisfied. But after installing Skype, even with no active calls and the software sitting "idle", my utilization went back up to 90%. I searched for workarounds or ways to manage its bandwidth consumption, but it's not really designed for managed operation - or may even be designed to work AROUND management. It definitely is designed to work around firewall restrictions, so my technological means to block the traffic were somewhat limited. On the bright side, this sequence of events raised the consequences of installing software without approval from "it'll piss off the IT department" to "you could get fired for it". ;-) Dave Salovesh Information Technology Manager National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Dowden, Robin Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:31 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] do you Skype? Do you allow Skype in your institution? I've been arguing for its legitimacy as a business tool but our IT department is concerned about misuse and security issues. I'm interested in hearing how/if others are using it, policies, tales of compromised networks as a result of peer-to-peer apps, any relevant or related info you're willing to share. Robin Dowden Director, New Media Initiatives Walker Art Center 1750 Hennepin Avenue Minneapolis, MN 55403 USA T: 612.375.7541 F: 612.375.7575 walkerart.org CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is confidential, is intended only for the individual or entity named above, and may contain privileged, work product, proprietary and/or confidential information that is exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or otherwise believe you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, use of or reliance upon any of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. Any inadvertent or unauthorized disclosure shall not compromise or waive the confidentiality of this transmission or any applicable attorney-client privilege. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us at mail1 at walkerart.org and delete this transmission from your computer. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From hraatz at artsmia.org Fri May 29 12:47:44 2009 From: hraatz at artsmia.org (Heidi Raatz) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 14:47:44 -0500 Subject: [MCN-L] Subject: Call for Proposals, 28th Annual VRA Conference, 2010, Atlanta, GA, 1st Reminder Message-ID: <4A1FF58F.2603.00CC.0@artsmia.org> A gentle reminder: Proposal deadline July 3, 2009. Call for Proposals, VRA Atlanta 2010 The Visual Resources Association's 28th Annual Conference will be held in Atlanta, GA from Wednesday March 17th through Saturday March 20th at the Westin Peachtree Plaza, Atlanta: http://www.starwoodhotels.com/westin/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1023 (http://tinyurl.com/ovd96 ) We are now soliciting proposals for the 2010 program sessions, workshops, papers and special interest groups. http://vraweb.org/conferences/2010Atlanta/proposal.php A *Session* is a 90 minute moderated session with 3 or 4 speakers at 20 minutes each followed by a facilitated brief question and answer period. A *Special Interest Group* is a 60 to 90-minute informal facilitated group discussion on topics related to a specific community within VRA. A *Workshop* is a 3 to 4 hour workshop to develop skills and experience in the field of Visual Resources, preferably with hands-on activities. General areas of interest include, but are not limited to: digital photography; digital imaging and presentation technologies; strategic planning; cataloging and metadata (including non-western, non-art, and special topics cataloging); trend forecasting for the visual resources profession; copyright and fair use; user instruction; and professional status issues. Attendees at the VRA Conference range from students and new professionals to seasoned mid and late career VR curators. Proposals from and directed to all attendees are welcome. We are always looking for ways to round out our programming, make it fresh and unique for our attendees, and therefore encourage submissions in VR-related areas not listed above and from new constituencies. In our post-conference survey we found that our members are particularly interested in the following themes & topics. Overall these topics reflect a concern with managing change balanced with continuity in the future of our profession and the collections we manage. ? Joint library & visual resources concerns ? Intellectual property issues, particularly in an international context & as they involve contemporary art; also differences in perspective on copy photography between libraries & VR collections ? Image & cataloging commons / resource sharing - the nuts & bolts ? Tips for younger professionals managing older staffers with emphasis on user training for new technology tools ? New technologies (encore! encore!) ? Marketing & selling visual resources collections & services ? User instruction to various constituencies - faculty, students, campus/institution-wide ? Time management, particularly in relation to job cuts & increased workloads ? Planning for retirement ? Reconfiguring & equipping the former slide library for the digital environment ? Leadership & mentoring ? Deposition of analog materials no longer in use Look for the proposal link (above) to appear on the VRA.org homepage very soon. The quality of conference content depends upon YOUR ideas and contributions. The VRA Executive Board will be looking for complete, concise and articulate submissions with full lists of presenters. Moderators may put out calls for speakers within a proposed topic before submitting their completed topics to the Executive Board. Specificity regarding audio-visual needs including live internet connectivity is required. If there is an area of concern or interest that you feel has not been addressed in previous programs, do consider submitting a proposal. Questions about the proposal process and the various presentation formats included in the VRA conference program can be directed to me at hraatz at artsmia.org. The proposal deadline is July 3, 2009. I look forward to receiving your proposals! Sincerely, Heidi S. Raatz Vice President for Conference Program Heidi S. Raatz | Visual Resources Librarian Minneapolis Institute of Arts 2400 Third Avenue South Minneapolis, MN 55404 (612) 870-3196 | (612) 870-3029 - permissions | hraatz at artsmia.org | permissions at artsmia.org | www.artsmia.org ( http://www.artsmia.org/ ) From dave at NLEOMF.ORG Fri May 29 13:48:24 2009 From: dave at NLEOMF.ORG (David Salovesh) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 16:48:24 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] do you Skype? In-Reply-To: <307ABFF8E627124A8D6449D1292A162E24F155@cma-srv-xch-01.cmaohio.org> References: <025C34E61656DF4B89B345C25F9155810EB2721621@WACEXCHVC.walkerart.biz> <65656E58CE28E7408ADD445F7DD120CC11ADFD898A@fs2.NLEM.int> <307ABFF8E627124A8D6449D1292A162E24F155@cma-srv-xch-01.cmaohio.org> Message-ID: <65656E58CE28E7408ADD445F7DD120CC11ADFD898E@fs2.NLEM.int> I probably misspoke in saying each user donates spare capacity. The role of a Skype "supernode" is to serve as the directory and router for other users, in lieu of Skype operating their own centrally managed servers. Any Skype user ("node") can become a supernode given the right conditions which are supposed to include spare processor and connection capacity and a routable public IP address. That didn't apply to us, but I still saw outrageous bandwidth consumption that correlated with the presence of Skype. I guess I can't explain why Skype was so bandwidth-hungry for us, but removing it and banning its re-installation resolved the problem. I suppose that - like anything else - if you are considering using it you might want to do thorough testing before committing to its adoption. Dave Salovesh Information Technology Manager National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Thomas Deliduka Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 2:43 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] do you Skype? I'm a little confused. Why would Skype need to run down someone's pipe only to jump back out again in a way of utilizing bandwidth for other calls? That seems quite inefficient to take a detour in routing of a telephone call. Thomas Deliduka Director of Information Technology Columbus Museum of Art 480 East Broad Street Columbus, OH 43215 ph 614/629-0345 fax 614/629-0950 thomas.deliduka at cmaohio.org ? ART SPEAKS. JOIN THE CONVERSATION -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of David Salovesh Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:51 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] do you Skype? Ad-hoc Skype is explicitly banned here. It may return someday as an organizational initiative, but we're still trying to figure out what the benefit would be for us. (We have sponsored phone service and have virtually no international communication requirements, so our economics may not be typical.) It wasn't always this way - I allowed it for a while. I originally had to ban it because we were short on bandwidth, and some folks couldn't resist using it in ways that completely overwhelmed our connection. That led to a temporary suspension of Skype use pending system analysis, improvements, and re-analysis. After we upgraded our connection I discovered the more troubling property of Skype traffic that led to the current outright ban: As I understand it, Skype can exist as a "free" service because each user donates spare bandwidth to carrying calls for other users. For home or home-like use that's probably okay since the bandwidth Skype sees as idle is probably actually so. In an enterprise or enterprise-like setting, the individual Skype clients don't do as good a job at measuring excess capacity. My previous service was SDSL at 1.5 mbps, and with 45 people in the office our utilization was over 95% at all times. My second site users were essentially unable to work, and even main site users were losing patience. After the upgrade to 10 mbps (metro-Ethernet), my typical utilization went to 20% (peaking at 90%, but only occasionally and briefly - as it should be) and my remote users were very satisfied. But after installing Skype, even with no active calls and the software sitting "idle", my utilization went back up to 90%. I searched for workarounds or ways to manage its bandwidth consumption, but it's not really designed for managed operation - or may even be designed to work AROUND management. It definitely is designed to work around firewall restrictions, so my technological means to block the traffic were somewhat limited. On the bright side, this sequence of events raised the consequences of installing software without approval from "it'll piss off the IT department" to "you could get fired for it". ;-) Dave Salovesh Information Technology Manager National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund -----Original Message----- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Dowden, Robin Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:31 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] do you Skype? Do you allow Skype in your institution? I've been arguing for its legitimacy as a business tool but our IT department is concerned about misuse and security issues. I'm interested in hearing how/if others are using it, policies, tales of compromised networks as a result of peer-to-peer apps, any relevant or related info you're willing to share. Robin Dowden Director, New Media Initiatives Walker Art Center 1750 Hennepin Avenue Minneapolis, MN 55403 USA T: 612.375.7541 F: 612.375.7575 walkerart.org CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is confidential, is intended only for the individual or entity named above, and may contain privileged, work product, proprietary and/or confidential information that is exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or otherwise believe you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, use of or reliance upon any of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. Any inadvertent or unauthorized disclosure shall not compromise or waive the confidentiality of this transmission or any applicable attorney-client privilege. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us at mail1 at walkerart.org and delete this transmission from your computer. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/ From hwitchey at clevelandart.org Sat May 30 11:59:38 2009 From: hwitchey at clevelandart.org (Holly Witchey) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 14:59:38 -0400 Subject: [MCN-L] do you Skype? In-Reply-To: <025C34E61656DF4B89B345C25F9155810EB2721621@WACEXCHVC.walkerart.biz> References: <025C34E61656DF4B89B345C25F9155810EB2721621@WACEXCHVC.walkerart.biz> Message-ID: <5CF048364B79B24694B5430B00F92C1C01FB1168D9@MAIL02.clevelandart.org> Couldn't live without it! Holly M. Witchey, Ph.D. Director of New Media Initiatives The Cleveland Museum of Art 11150 East Blvd. Cleveland, Ohio 44106 Telephone: 216-707-2653 Email: hwitchey at clevelandart.org ________________________________________ From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Dowden, Robin [robin.dowden at walkerart.org] Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:31 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: [MCN-L] do you Skype? Do you allow Skype in your institution? I?ve been arguing for its legitimacy as a business tool but our IT department is concerned about misuse and security issues. I?m interested in hearing how/if others are using it, policies, tales of compromised networks as a result of peer-to-peer apps, any relevant or related info you're willing to share. Robin Dowden Director, New Media Initiatives Walker Art Center 1750 Hennepin Avenue Minneapolis, MN 55403 USA T: 612.375.7541 F: 612.375.7575 walkerart.org CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is confidential, is intended only for the individual or entity named above, and may contain privileged, work product, proprietary and/or confidential information that is exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or otherwise believe you have received this message in error, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, use of or reliance upon any of the information contained in this transmission is strictly prohibited. Any inadvertent or unauthorized disclosure shall not compromise or waive the confidentiality of this transmission or any applicable attorney-client privilege. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us at mail1 at walkerart.org and delete this transmission from your computer. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/