[MCN-L] image sizes

Tue May 5 09:26:19 PDT 2009

Can you share some examples of getting burned?

On 5/5/09 12:16 PM, "Jeffrey Evans" <jfevans at Princeton.EDU> wrote:

This has been an interesting thread to read.  Here at Princeton we enjoy the cover of an Office of General Counsel.  We have had more than a few meetings dealing with what we can and cannot put online. The question is not IF you're going to get burned, but WHEN.  One of our attorneys has been neck deep in cases just such as this, and the results are very specific as to what is usable pixel-size-wise.  Its a scary litigious world out there and if you're dealing with living artists or other intellectual property that will generate some revenue; make sure you're OK before posting something.

JEFF EVANS
Princeton Univ Art Museum.

-----Original Message-----
From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Eric Johnson
Sent: Tue 5/5/2009 11:55 AM
To: Museum Computer Network Listserv
Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes

Matt raises an interesting point: has anybody ever had any problems with
people "lifting" high-quality images of your collection without seeking
permission and making money with them (posters, t-shirts, etc.)?

The only thing I can think of off-hand is more in the vein of taking
print-quality images and using them in books without permission.  But
then again, I'm not familiar with any example of that actually
happening; it's just a worry passed down from higher-ups.

But I'm curious about any specific examples of such unauthorized
reproduction that anybody might have.

--E.

Eric D. M. Johnson
Web Services Librarian
Jefferson Library, Monticello
P.O. Box 316
Charlottesville, VA 22902
Phone: (434) 984-7540 | Fax: (434) 984-7546
http://www.monticello.org/library/
ejohnson at monticello.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Morgan, Matt [mailto:matt.morgan at metmuseum.org]
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM
To: Museum Computer Network Listserv
Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes

I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing, but
don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining like crazy
here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one of my
bugbears a little bit.

We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a significant,
commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object images. It just isn't
done--there is no business model in stealing images. Getting images of
more than 1000px (from Flickr, for example) of our objects is a trivial
matter, so it cannot be that increasing image sizes on our own websites
will make this problem materialize.

I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all face.
I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start
letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or blowing
them up until they're fuzzy.

Thanks,
Matt

On 5/5/09 11:10 AM, "Real, Will" <RealW at CarnegieMuseums.Org> wrote:

Matt, you are probably right, but 500 was what other people here (e.g.
Publications staff) were comfortable with. A postcard-sized inkjet print
we made from a 600 pixel image was surprisingly good, good enough to
scare people. I hope someday we can move beyond this stalemate and
provide more useful images to the public, with or without tools such as
Zoomify.

Will

-----Original Message-----
From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of
Morgan, Matt
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:48 AM
To: Museum Computer Network Listserv
Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes

I'm aware of the discussion, but what's the limit before you hit
"commercially viable"? Surely more than 500px.

On 5/5/09 10:39 AM, "Real, Will" <RealW at CarnegieMuseums.Org> wrote:

Hi Matt,

The reason is simple: the museum does not want people to be able to use
the large images to produce commercially viable prints. There was a
thread on this list awhile back about that issue, and it seems our
museum is not alone in taking this approach. We seem to think that there
is some money to be made off the images and if anyone is going to make
it, it should be us.

With Zoomify or jpeg2000 we can offer up the full size image without
loading it all at once. If someone really wants to they will still be
able to download all of the high-res tiles and reassemble them, but it
would be a lot more difficult.

Another reason is that some images are published on the web with
permission from the copyright owners. The permission form specifies the
online image size. We'd have to maintain at least two different maximum
file sizes online depending on copyright. Not impossible of course, just
kind of a pain!

Will

-----Original Message-----
From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of
Morgan, Matt
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:57 AM
To: Museum Computer Network Listserv
Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes

Will, why wait for zoom before providing the large images? I think there
are a lot of good arguments for very big images online now:

1) modern browsers handle resizing well
2) scrolling (when an image is too big for the window) is at least as
easy for users as zooming, and shows them as much of the picture as will
fit in the window (rather than arbitrarily limiting to a zoom pane)
3) connections are getting faster
4) and anyway, images are our "franchise" so if we're going to test
users' bandwidth limits, this is the place to do it.

Thanks,
Matt

On 5/5/09 8:50 AM, "Real, Will" <RealW at CarnegieMuseums.Org> wrote:

We typically use 2400 px images in our internal database. The database
creates a series of derivatives upon import and the user can then choose
which version they want to open, save, or print. The derivatives are
about 900 px, and a thumbnail. The tiff masters are stored outside of
the database and range from about 3000 px to 8000 px.

When the images are processed over to the web side, three sizes are
created: 500 px, 240 px, and 80 px.

In the future we hope to use zoomable formats on the web (e.g. Zoomify,
jpeg2000) and if so would probably publish the full 2400 px version from
the collections database.

Will Real
Carnegie Museum of Art

________________________________

From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Images
Sent: Fri 5/1/2009 14:57
To: Museum Computer Network Listserv
Subject: [MCN-L] image sizes

I'm wondering what size(s) of images people are using in their internal
databases? 1024 pixels on the long side plus a thumbnail view? What size
do you use for online purposes?

Many thanks!
Danielle
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